sexuality
5 Nov 2009
How Liberating Is Porn Really?
Celebrating the huge amount of porn in our culture as a sign of sexual freedom ignores the fact that most porn is completely unrealistic, writes Pete Malicki
One of the results of the internet now being accessed by 80 per cent of the Australian population is an unprecedented exposure to porn. In the past, adults had to buy videos from seedy stores and kids took chances sneaking a look at dad's Playboys. Now, with thousands of TGP (thumbnail gallery post), streaming video, and torrent sites, a virtually unlimited supply of porn pictures and videos can be found by anyone who cares to look for them, and by many people who don't.As internet technology aids the spread of pornographic material, our acceptance of it correspondingly increases. We are now living in a society that is hugely apologetic to the porn industry, where critics are often accused of obstructing free speech rather than as applauded for raising genuine concerns about a burgeoning social issue. The debate around porn seems to be polarised between the two extremes of "Porn is evil" and "Porn is awesome" — views held by fundamentalist Christians and libertarians respectively.
But what is it that we're actually seeing when we watch this stuff? In porn you can find orgies involving dozens of strangers, blowjobs in crowded public places, hidden cameras, people having sex with animals, incest, animated aliens doing popular cartoon characters, married couples making sweet tender love, same-sex sex, and sexual acts involving anything ranging from poo, pee, vomit, semen, and blood, to dildos, leather, whips, electrodes, machines, knives, fists, feet, blindfolds, ropes, etc etc.
The list extends as far human creativity. No fetish has gone unfilmed and if there's something you want to see, no matter how illegal or bizarre, you can find it if you know where to look.
But let's forget about all the kinky and unusual stuff and look at the more common content. Your standard — as in, most frequently occurring — porno features a beautiful girl, usually young or young-looking. The guy is often unattractive and at least a decade older than his partner, but he has a huge penis. He uses his physical strength and assertiveness to dominate the girl (or girls). The vast majority of scenes end in the male ejaculating on his co-star's face, breasts, back or vulva. Anal sex is present more often than it's absent. The male is dispassionate and appears to care little for the girl, whereas she moans with uninhibited pleasure. Lesbian action is prevalent in male-oriented straight porn and one guy doing two girls is pretty much the norm.
You can find porn in any form imaginable, but spend a few hours trawling the internet and you'll see that the above is a fairly accurate description of your average scene. Is this what proponents of pornography are so in favour of? Anal sex, facials, domination and huge cocks?
If men — especially those with less sexual experience — take this at face value, they'll be picking up some very unpopular habits. I'm not going to tell you what to do in bed (or in the car, or the bushes) but I think it's worth pointing out some of the ways porn severely distorts reality.
Number one, in reality most girls don't like anal sex. Many girls have tried anal but most of them don't do it regularly. Yours might like it, and that's wonderful for you, but the ubiquity of anal sex in porn does not reflect its popularity in real life.
Secondly, most girls don't want to finish sex with a faceful of spunk. This is something that some girls might love or that you might do occasionally, but it is far from standard procedure. Issues of domination and humiliation aside, it's messy and difficult to clean.
Then there are issues of performance standards. When you've seen hundreds or thousands of well-endowed men on the internet and on DVD, you will be much more inclined to worry about penis size and take on the stresses of being "average". Boys, let me tell you a huge secret: they don't really care that much how big your dick is! In fact, if it's as big as half the guys you see online, they won't have anywhere to put it. Too small is bad, yes, but too big is even worse. We live in a society filled with men paranoid they won't be able to please a girl with their mere five or six inches and unfortunately porn reinforces the falsehood that bigger is always better.
If you take porn at face value, you could be forgiven for thinking it's not about female pleasure, which occupies a very marginal place in the videos. Let's be realistic here: will women do whatever a man wants them to do while selflessly ignoring their own enjoyment? Very unlikely, unless they're making choices which don't really reflect their wishes. Most will expect sex to be as much about them as it is about their partner; if her needs in bed are ignored, she probably won't bother with that dud again.
Finally, the threesome thing barely warrants the effort of a critique. Having one's way with two bisexual women is a common fantasy among heterosexual males but it doesn't happen to them anywhere near as much as they'd like it to. Its frequency in porn gives the impression that it's standard practice in real life, which is anything but true. Most people will live and die without experiencing a threesome. So get over it.
And these representations of sex don't just affect men. While accurate statistics are hard to come by (one survey of 1000 individuals in the UK claimed that 66 per cent of women admitted to watching porn), most stats I have seen suggest that somewhere around one third of porn viewers are female. Even if the figure is significantly less, it's clear that millions of women around the world have been exposed to plenty of porn. While they may not spend as much time with it as men, they will have seen enough to know what is out there. Given that porn overwhelmingly represents a version of male fantasy, female viewers will be shown what males "want" sexually. It's pretty easy to understand why women who have been overexposed to porn might feel pressured to fit that fantasy, even without being asked to perform the acts listed above.
Of all the demographics affected by overexposure to porn, it's young males whose potential responses are most concerning. It's important that they don't grow up on bad stereotypes and depictions of fantasies, lest they end up with a skewed perception of what sex is really like. It's disturbing enough that the vast majority of porn involves activities which are demeaning to women or which have such a strong bias towards male pleasure. Pornography is much like the wrestling: it's entertaining, it looks good (if you're a heterosexual man), but it's not real. That's not to say it's evil or has no place, but it must be taken for what it is.
The truth is, many of us simply love our porn and will look for any reason to defend it, ignoring the damage it causes many of the actresses involved and the misconceptions it spreads throughout the wider population, not to mention the impact it might be having on under-aged viewers. The extent to which pornography is addictive is something still being debated, but there are credible experts who believe that porn may be harder to shake than cocaine. Surely that alone should make us think twice about protecting, excusing and promoting it as much as we increasingly do?
And these arguments don't even touch on the bad stuff — such as humiliation, illegally taken 'voyeur' pics, and homemade materials that have been distributed without consent — and the really bad stuff, such as rape, bestiality, incest, paedophilia, and a veritable smorgasbord of other materials available to those who look for them.
My point is not that we need to ban porn, but it would be good if we agreed that what we're talking about is something that distorts human sexuality and effectively misinforms many people. It also presents most sex as the fulfilment of a strange kind of lowest-common-denominator male fantasy — one which men, if they want fulfilling sex lives, really should not try at home. That's what most porn is, so let's not pretend that we're making a grand statement about sexual freedom by watching it.
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Mixed feelings about porn. It’s too addictive and I limit my own use with filters… but good porn can be fun.
You don’t want to blame men for bad porn, unless you want to praise them for the diversity too. The cultural taboos around anything but vanilla sex means that porn fills the space where adventure and safe experimentation can take place.
Women could be more involved consumers and less conservative when it comes to sex.
Good to see some writing on the issue that attempts to draw a middle line, but I don’t think you quite get there. You misunderstand libertarians as thinking that "Porn is awesome." Just thinking that something should be allowed doesn’t mean that one thinks it is awesome, and I think your inflation of this alleged dispute muddies the actual question, which isn’t about whether porn is awesome or not, but about its place in our society.
Obviously porn has its ups and its downs, but calling it "something that distorts human sexuality" is a bit rich. As you justify, there are examples of porn that misinform and would promote sex-negative stereotypes. But the variety of pornography available is surely its saving grace; I daresay if we had a culture that was more sexually mature in a broad sense, it wouldn’t be hard at all to imagine an individual or couple seeking out porn that fitted in to their conception of healthy relationship, and not relationships that fitted in to their conception of good porn.
Pete seems pretty knowledgable on what is available.
I take from the lack of recommendations that he hasn’t found some fabulous truely erotic stuff??
Obviously, porn does depict exceedingly unrealistic situations with little resemblance to real life.
Unlike the rest of the entertainment industry.
Thanks Pete - you’ve succinctly highlighted some of the important aspects of this debate.
The thing that always concerns me with the libertarian perspective is the assumption that actors within the porn industry elect to participate under conditions of ‘free choice’. Whilst this may be the case with many participants, importantly it is not the case for all. For my mind the biggest detrimental aspect of the porn industry is the potential exploitation of vulnerable or marginalised people (predominantly women) who for whatever reason are pushed into such an industry.
If I truly believed that every person who copped a golden shower, or was filmed being gang-banged ‘freely’ consented to participate in such a process, and wasn’t in some way compelled into such actions through necessity, then I’d happily withdraw my central objection to pornography.
Until then, its important to acknowledge the phenomenon of exploitation that can occur, and admit that being a purveyor of porn makes the viewer to an extent complicit in this process.
Hi all,
My comments about libertarians are a very loose generalisation based on many opinion pieces I’ve read on the topic; naturally, I don’t think they all share this perspective. Prime example is the internet filter debate - Clive Hamilton who more or less spearheaded the campaign in favour for the government filter copped a lot of flak for his views, and there seemed to be very few libertarians acknowledging that he was doing it with good intentions (no matter how ineffective the filter may be). Mainly he was told ‘keep your hands off our porn’ and in fact many comments I read were questioning any negative effect of porn which Hamilton was concerned about.
Likewise, not all opponents think it’s evil. It just seems to be quite a polarised topic, with few middle-ground analyses.
And yes, I agree that one can find ‘good’ porn and something that might suit the needs of a couple. Absolutely. Also, porn can be good in a sense that it makes one feel comfortable if they have uncommon sexual interests, or even, say, a young homosexual who feels marginalised can see that homosexual sex is out there and it’s okay. Bear in mind that I’m talking about the ‘average’ scene/porno, as in, what most frequently occurs.
EarnestLee, yep, I have seen some great erotic stuff, but I don’t think this is the forum for promoting my favourite pornos!
Mewingcat, agreed. One of my beefs with porn libertarians is their apparent reluctance to address the dark side of the topic, rather grandstanding that it’s right and sexual freedom and blah blah (again, blatant generalisation!).
Thanks for the interest.
Pete
www.petemalicki.com
Once again we get the pathetic whine of “It’s unrealistic” from the wowsers. Having realised that we will no longer accept their fascist claims to have a right to order us about due to their false belief of superiority over the rest of us, it is their latest justification for sticking their nose in where it is not wanted.
I would like to know why the “It’s unrealistic” complaint only applies to Porn? Why not all human activity? Footballers seem to me to be a disproportionately healthy bunch of people, why don’t we have laws stopping unrepresentative athletes from playing, replace them with ordinary people. We could have teams of fat bastards waddling around the field. The same with the V8 Supercars, I can only afford a Holden Camira. They should make the race more realistic and only allow the drivers to race 30 year old, 4 cylinder, Station Wagons.
The “It’s unrealistic” argument is just as stupid as the wowser’s previous arguments of “God told me to boss you around” and “I’m better than you therefore I can boss you around”. If you don’t like Porn, or you think it is unrealistic, don’t look at it, and leave the rest of us alone.
I have mixed feelings. I love porn, but I’m very aware of the gender imbalance and completely unrealistic set-ups. But as BPobjie said, this is hardly exclusive to porn. I don’t watch Die Hard to learn about the day-to-day activities of police officers, and I don’t watch porn to learn about sex.
I strongly believe that if we are provided with a comprehensive sex education program while we’re in school, the impacts of porn will be lessened. That way porn will be recognised for what it is - a fantasy, not reality.
I do think that porn has benefits. Queer people in the closet have had their sexual identities celebrated through porn. Sex lives can be invigorated or become more intimate through the discovery of sexual tastes through porn.
http://corpulent.wordpress.com
I just wish that erudite writers like Pete would cease using the word ‘porn’ to describe a genre of sexually explicit material that just about covers every conceivable fantasy now. Wasn’t it the famous Zen master Lao Tzu who described the created world as the ‘10,000 things’? Its like that. There’s porn for every conceivable fetish and desire out there on line. Does Pete think that my penchant for woman’s feet is the same as someone who wants to see people flogged to within an inch of their life? Of course not. And yet they both fall into the category of ‘porn’. The word doesn’t mean anything these days. It means what the writer, and then the reader, want it to mean. Usually their deepest darkest bete noir. So get real with this subject and don’t even attempt to label every sexually explicit or sexually-oriented site on the www as ‘porn’.
And if you thought that the Christian right and their supporters in both Liberal and Labor governments are not being heard …think again. Yesterday a Sydney man became the first person in Australia to be sent to jail for the heinous crime of selling a film that had been classified X by the Commonwealth authorities, as suitable for Australians to sell, purchase and possess. It was a first offence as well. Could this be pay back by the Catholic right in NSW Labor for the adult industry launching the Sex Party?
In early 2007 John Howard’s first draft of the Online Content Services Bill contained $200,000 fines and two year jail sentences for anyone in Australia uploading sexually explicit material to a website anywhere in the world. Thankfully the second draft had these unbelievably draconian penalties removed after a concerted lobby campaign from a coalition of business and adult industry representatives. Notwithstanding the fact that he calls for no bans on porn the problem with articles like Pete’s is that they are used by the religious right to lobby MPs to harsher penalties for sexually explicit material.
This article is just another very limited scope of our perception of ‘porn’ - to be honest, I’m not entirely sure how broadly people interpret this term but I’m quite sick of well-meaning, intellectual men and women pretending that everyone in the porn industry must have been forced there. Of course it’s true for some, but is that not true for all industries? Why single out porn? People often make choices to work in particular industries which may be harmful to their health.
Also, if you’re going to discuss this issue on such an abstract level, hypothesising on why people may or may not enter the porn industry - why don’t you do what you would have done for any other industry? Go and talk to current and past porn stars, men and women. That’s the other thing, for those who believe it is so degrading for women to participate in porn films, why do you assume that this is unique to women? It seems people believe that it’s ok for men to make money from sex, but if a women uses sex to make money than it must be incredibly degrading and not something women elect to do and therefore we must not allow them to do it.
Women, just like men, make choices based on a variety factors. They are not all little oppressed things that need a paternalistic society to protect them. Yes, exploitation occurs but to what extent - we have no idea because we’re sitting around talking about why other people choose to do something. I assume we are doing this because we don’t believe they are capable of answering our questions and that our answers must be better than theirs.
Thank you for an interesting article Pete, at the very least there is a shortage of commentary on this a topic that is very relevant.
I would however have to side with the three last posters and generally their arguments.
You espouse the negative impact of a maligned exposure to porn, but this applies for just about everything in life - here education and a healthy discussion on the topic would bring the most benefit.
You mention that porn distorts reality and then admit that the porn available isn’t for the most part what is actually happening in bedrooms, even if that were true (and i’m not saying it isn’t but that this article isn’t about what is happening in the bedroom) that is not the point of porn. If porn in the flavours that are available don’t reflect what is happening in the bedroom there is a good reason for it, people may not want to see a reproduction of their actual lives on screen, we want fantasy, we want escapism… we want to induldge those many millions of fantasies we have, just like winning the footy grand final with a body to make Hercules blush or crossing the finish line in a V8 SUPERcar that costs many millions more than its aesthetic ancestor sitting in the showrooms.
Unhealthy? perhaps
Damaging? perhaps
Any worse than institutionalised religion or hell pretty much anything in this day and age? i dont think so
I honestly just don’t see the context in which your article was written, other than good old sensationalism - i wish you had done more with this topic which obviously know something about.
Happily, i’m just an arm chair critic though
A new adjective for it - boring. As in, watch it *after* you’ve had an orgasm, and see if you honestly think it isn’t.
Peter,
I think you are onto something here. It may not be the point of porn to reflect what happens in bedrooms, as ryck points out, but it does play a role in distorting people’s (ie men’s) expectations. I have a cousin who is a beauty therapist and she says the huge increase in women getting brazilian waxes is due to the influence of porn. A friend who is single again and dating after the break up of her eight year relationship commented that a man suggested ‘she clean herself up down there.’
It may be that most men will die and not experience a threesome in the bedroom, but that doesn’t stop them from asking for it - and this is a relatively new phenomenon. A few women friends have relayed to me that men have asked them for a threesome with some expectation that they should deliver.
Yes, it is be damaging if young men believe that it’s OK to be selfish lovers with no regard for women’s feelings in the bedroom. As Peter says, it takes assertive women to stop that behaviour, but given the propensity with which women are coerced into doing things that they don’t actually like (brazilians hurt like hell) - it seems that porn is having the effect that you alludes to.
And as you say, how liberating is it, actually?
"Boys, let me tell you a huge secret: they don’t really care that much how big your dick is!"
I’d love to see some evidence that backed up that statement. I used to believe it too, but then my girlfriends started to tell me that was a lie, interest piqued I asked other women I know, and they concurred. From what I can gather this statement is either something that some men use as comfort or is a white lie that has been told to someone to protect their feelings and has been blown out of proportion/generalised too far.
Having said that, I’d imagine there is a "too big" category for most people, and I’d also suggest that preferences vary from partner to partner - just like porn :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_penis_size#Perceptions_of_penis_size
Yes, it’s Wikipedia, but it does have links to some studies done on this. A quick internet search reveals plenty of studies all stating that a substantial percentage of men are concerned about their penis size compared to a small percentage of women who prefer larger penises. Like I said, too small is bad, but most women are happy with an average sized dick (the average dick being - of course - average sized).
Of the women I’ve asked, the feedback probably fits a similar ratio to these studies. Most don’t really care so long as it isn’t too small or too big (I’ll let you decide how long that might be), but the occasional one loves a biggun. Naturally, everyone has a different preference.
I would definitely say that someone who is average stresses more than is necessary. The same could be said for women and their breasts - as magazines, ads and many aspects of popular culture so often show women with large breasts, those who are smaller have become less satisfied with what they have, even though the majority of their partners are not dissatisfied (even if small is not their preference). Whatever the merits of porn or advertising may be, overexposure to them can lead one to compare themselves to carefully-selected models/pornstars and subsequent feelings of inadequacy.
And I had a friend date a Kenyan. He had a foot long penis (sounds like a stereotype, eh?). She had nowhere to put it! Would you prefer to feel nothing or be torn apart?
www.petemalicki.com
Grrrrr! Some of the arguments put here are appallingly patronising.
Of course porn is unrealistic but to suggest that that in itself is damaging assumes that people are too stupid to realise it’s fake (although, obviously not the author or the many others who feel the need to warn the less intelligent of their perceptions of the danger of porn). As many commenters have quite rightly pointed out, people are well capable of recognising other forms of entertainment as unrealistic; to somehow single out porn smacks of wowserism rather than any reasoned argument.
But the more patronising idea is that those who work in any part of the sex industry are all exploited. Of course some people are forced into the work through lack of choices, same as in most industries - that’s the nature of work in a capitalist system. And some are exploited just as workers in most other industries - again, welcome to capitalism. Doesn’t make it right but it’s not unique to the sex industry.
I know a number of people who work in the sex industry, including in porn, and they are all strong independent women who *choose* the work for any number of reasons - financial, convenience, enjoyment, opportunity. @mewingcat, it takes more that placing ‘free choice’ in inverted commas to invalidate these women’s choices and to attempt to do so is patronising. (The counter to this argument if often "Yes they *think* they’ve made a free choice but they’re really in denial about their exploitation" which is, ironically, offensively patronising, disempowering and humiliating.)
BTW, no one in the 2005 article on WebMD to which the author links says that "porn may be harder to shake than cocaine". In fact, the idea of applying the "addiction" model to porn is explicitly rejected by a number of the people quoted in the piece. Others are reported or quoted as saying "porn can be part of a healthy relationship" and "[P]orn addiction [is] a label that’s used to put down behavior that’s disapproved of socially. A lot of it is shaming masturbation." Of course one can selectively find research to bolster any preconceived position so maybe a more fully researched piece, preferrably from an author with more direct knowledge in these issues would have been better.
Less uninformed opinion, more considered, balanced and researched pieces please. Very disappointing New Matilda.
Reading this article, the thing that most impressed me was the direct advice to inexperienced young men: porn = crap sex.
I’m the kind of girl who values sexual freedom and experimentation (is there any other kind?) but speaking for myself, at least, the attitude of a sexual partner is the most important thing. So guys who learn their attitude towards sex from porn… well they aren’t going to get far with me.
Whether representing mainstream heterosexuality or any number of fetishistic subcultures, a common feature of pornography is wooden acting and a lack of communication between the actors (some say this leaves room for the viewer to ‘fill the gaps’ with their own fantasies but it just leaves me cold…). And Pete is not the first person to point out that most pornographic films also feature women in submissive roles to dominant men. (Of course that’s a generalization but fem-dom films are a rare exception, usually only appearing in the SM genre or feminist-produced porn.)
My solution is by no means to ban pornography, I believe that by drastically relaxing censorship laws in Australia, filmmakers and TV producers would be able to introduce graphic sex and full frontal nudity into programming which contextualizes the sex scenes. I’m not talking about just romantic hetero-normative story-lines. I want more movies and TV shows where flawed, relateable characters have messy, awkward, funny, scary and sexy sex too. When more diverse representations of sexuality infiltrate our media, the ‘need’ for porn will be reduced and sex may begin to shake off it’s close association with shame and secrecy.
Datakid, common wisdom states that most women care more about penis width than length. Also, keep in mind that women have few nerve endings inside their vagina so too much focus on phallic penetration will never get a fantastic reaction no matter what your size…
Do these tools for switching on of sexuality really have to include a switching off of a basic care/concern for others? Its seems like porn these days is not just unrealistic but also incredibly unkind. I think there is definately a place for porn and I don’t believe porn in itself is evil, but porn where people are acting evil does seem somewhat evil.
If ‘facial’s, anal sex, gang bangs and an unhealthy lack of pubic hair are really the norms for the porn industry then this is very sad considering the amazing possibilities of healthier, kinder sexuality. Imagine if the majority of porn involved women doing these degrading things to men. Though a small minority might be into it, I don’t think most men would be too happy about it.
Can people not get off without having to fantasize about being arseholes?
and remember that eminent Victoriaj artist poor old John Ruskin who had formed his idea of human anatomy from statues. Traumatised for life by his first encounter with real live pubes.
Trying to ban porn would be like trying to hold back the ocean tide. There is some really sick, sick stuff out there and I found that out because a certain male I know downloaded a truckload full of it on my computer on several occasions and left the icon on my desktop for my 12 year old son to find. They were in my video folder and I found them quite accidentally doing an advanced search for something one day. They were promptly deleted, along with any others I found after that.
The problem is with accessibility - anybody anywhere can find what they want and if people want to look at it there’s no way it can be stopped. Unless it is policed in the home if kids are around. That’s a very big worry.
Yes, it is unrealistic and not to be taken seriously in my view - the old adage, whatever turns you on.
And it isn’t the size that matters either, it’s how it’s used. Like any utensil. Which in the case of porn means that’s exactly what it is. When there’s no emotion involved it’s purely just anatomical and guess that suits the players fine.
I think it’s very sad that some people choose to make it their livelihood and are not fussed about having their faces (and whatever else) revealed in front of a camera.
Out of curiosity I watched something on Fox the other night about a guy auditioning a young married woman with an established porn actress. The husband watched everything. That’s about as libertarian as you can get, showing that sort of crap on television. And the only reason the wife did it was for the money.
Sexploitation by any other name.
Does anyone else find it at least a little ironic that a male writing about porn would so quickly come to the conclusion that the ‘average’ porno is about the male dominating the female(s) and that ‘most’ people can’t help but see this? At least the church invokes a higher authority to mask its male chauvinism.
I figure that the only way in which pornography can ‘distort human sexuality and effectively misinform many people’ is when articles like this attempt to embue it (that is, porn) with characterisitics it simply doesn’t have.
If the author intends to make a substantive statement about ‘unrealistic’ sexual expression, then:
Even asking the obvious question (i.e. where is the evidence?) seems vacuous. This is because there are more fundamental problems with the basic premise of the article. Before you can wax on about what constitutes ‘appropriate’ or ‘healthy’ sexual expression you first have know how to go about collecting and collating expressions of sexual desire. Is author suggesting that his exhaustive search of wikipedia (including the linked ‘articles’!) and internet porn sites is a sufficient basis from which to form an opinion?
If the author wishes to take a more literal approach and draw our attention to the ‘unrealistic’ way in which ‘life imitates art’, then
WTF dude? Art is always excessive. That’s its role. I figure if your an adult and can’t distinguish between the two then you’ve got look a little deeper (but don’t look in the mirror - you may confuse yourself even more).
How liberating is porn? How liberating is any other form of sexism? Yes, I do know there are men who pose for Playgirl and the like and there are women making megabucks out of porn. But let’s get real: porn exists for men to come all over images of women. Anything else (such as gay male porn) is an added extra like steering wheel covers or cupholders. Besides, gay male porn by definition is for men - as is a lot of so-called lesbian porn.
Porn, or the type of porn referred to, is a symptom of a more widely sexist culture - most men have rather low regard for women before they are exposed to porn, posing it as a cause is just scapegoating a far more uncomfortable reality - people get these views from their parents, churches, schools, politicians and far more mainstream media than porn. As long as we’re told about ‘manipulative women,’ God-commanded subservience to men, and that ‘boys will be boys’ - degrading porn is going to be accepted, not because it creates these views but because it reinforces the existing sexist views in society.
In short - blaming porn is nothing more than a cop out.
You make a really good point, sammic.
I find that most arguments that use a ‘media effects’ model (the idea that the media is somehow responsible for causing all kinds of bad behavior) are flimsy and politically motivated. I agree that sexism exists outside of pornography and would still exist if all pornography was magically wiped off off the planet. But I still think that the media is one of the institutions that influences people’s views and perpetuates inequalities. Why do you disapprove of people here using pornography as an example to start a discussion about sexual difference and sexual politics?
You say "degrading porn is going to be accepted, not because it creates these views but because it reinforces the existing sexist views in society" but here on this forum degrading porn is overwhelmingly unaccepted… That’s not scapegoating, is it?
I don’t think anyone here is arguing that sexually explicit material is inherently bad or harmful, only that the content and conventions of pornography could be improved.
Again, I appreciate that this debate needed a reality check, that porn is sexist because of society and not the other way around. But I hope you can appreciate that when people engage critically with the media it is a way of challenging the status quo and formulating new ideas. It is not a ‘cop out’.
I have an issue with people using porn as an example because the example is too easy to use, to a point where people become obsessed with the porn aspect and lose sight of the broader picture. Porn is a very lazy example and not particularly conducive to new ideas because it is the strawman that always gets thrown into the debate and serves as a massive distraction from the actual problems. That is why I regard this particular article as a cop out.
I really don’t regard this article as challenging the status quo - it’s the same arguments heard constantly and the same arguments that fail because, as I mentioned previously, none of these concerned writers seem to bother to actually ask sex workers. They appear to prefer to inform themselves through other media sources that seem intent on infantalising any women in the sex industry, rendering them voiceless whilst claiming to be concerned about them.
loquaciousjess says:
‘My solution is by no means to ban pornography, I believe that by drastically relaxing censorship laws in Australia, filmmakers and TV producers would be able to introduce graphic sex and full frontal nudity into programming which contextualizes the sex scenes. I’m not talking about just romantic hetero-normative story-lines. I want more movies and TV shows where flawed, relateable characters have messy, awkward, funny, scary and sexy sex too. When more diverse representations of sexuality infiltrate our media, the ‘need’ for porn will be reduced and sex may begin to shake off it’s close association with shame and secrecy.’
I’ve felt this for a long time. Skilled directors and actors could provide a level of intimacy and ‘relatability’ not seen in your average porno. It would sure be an improvement on the predictable didactic Hollywood dross that’s served up at my local multiplex.
meski: "A new adjective for it - boring. As in, watch it *after* you’ve had an orgasm, and see if you honestly think it isn’t."
That’s like saying pizza is crap because you probably won’t want one sraight after you’ve already eaten. Why the hell would you want to watch it after you’ve had an orgasm?
" And the only reason the wife did it was for the money."
For the MONEY? FO THE MONEY?
Why, this truly IS an outrage! We simply can NOT have women going about performing tasks for MONEY! It would break down the very fabric of our economic system!
I like the equation with pizza. Porn being the junk food of sex! Can you get it gourmet, gluten free, so I can feel a little better afterwards?!
Frankly, porn is simply boring, not even shameful, and no more enticing than the few blokes were who wanted me to watch it with them, just plain old boring. Unrealistic sure, but boringly so. I mean, how many times can anybody fall to the trick of appearances being the be all and end all of our human relations. It’s a limit to meet, and if some folk find porn a useful way of meeting that limit, and everybody involved is old enough and consenting, then let them have their boring gig.
But what interests me, is how the fluctuations of the pay rates of prostitutes, (including porn film actors and strippers etc), vary depending on the economy.
When there is big money around, prossies are paid shit, and when everybody is strapped for cash, their pay rates go up. Funny thing huh! Everybody who uses pornography ought to think about that. Are you more or less likely to spend a dollar on in when dollars are scarce?
Word Sword Sworn
At Hath
That Hat
Inshallah no poetry farce
By Solomon’s Seal will my past
No word not true can last
Love those broad generalisations. I think porn is boring, so does everyone else, except for people that are boring! Way to extend the dialogue, thanks for coming.
The concensus seems to be that the quality is poor.
Therefore the media’s role should be to protect the consumer from rubbish by sanitising the product with the glare of publicity.
lets all get liberated!
There seems to be some repeated confusion.
There is no claim that everyone in the sex industry is being exploited or entering it unwillingly. I’m sorry, but those who’ve made that misinterpretation and commented along those lines have entirely missed the point, and really need to read things thoroughly before jumping onto their high horses and telling the world how patronising and misinformed the author is.
Most people enter porn willingly. I assume most of them have no problems doing it as they go back to it again and again. From the many accounts I’ve read, many and probably the majority of porn stars have no regrets.
However, read very carefully what I wrote:
"…ignoring the damage it causes many of the actresses involved…"
That’s right, many. Anyone with knowledge on the topic will know that there are indeed many former porn stars who regret what they have done, and many who were forced into it due to financial desperation (and we can safely assume that a percentage of these unenthusiastic participants will have some kind of psychological damage from prostituting themselves), and there are others yet who are non-consenting. Case in point, the lead actress from arguably the most famous porno ever, Deep Throat, claimed to have been forced into porn by her abusive husband, and that he stood off screen with a gun aimed at her head while she was being raped on camera. Even if you want to deny these claims, there’s no denying the woman was psychologically damaged by the ordeal! And yes, this may be an isolated event and an extreme example, but to claim it never happens would be nothing short of denial.
There are plenty of accounts available from former porn stars claiming they were unconsenting, or that they’ve been psychologically damaged, or that it has made it difficult for them to get a career after porn, etc. Even a former Abby Winters (AW) (Australian erotica/lesbian porn site) model started a blog complaining that the ramifications of being in porn were not explained to her by AW staff. Some other former AW models sided with her. This site is much more tasteful than most, and promotes natural bodies and realistic depictions of sex. The point is, even on what appears to be an ethical porn site, there are claims from those in front of the camera that some kind of damage has been done to them, even if it was due to their own naivity about the nature of materials spreading on the internet. So when you have sites dedicated to and including the names of exploitation, humiliation, trickery and other things, do we really think all of the pornstars involved are happy, willing, supportive participants?
Many of these above comments, however, validate one of the points I wanted to make: that porn libertarians go up in arms when anyone says anything even remotely critical about porn. Why can’t you love porn and also admit that it has its flaws, and that some dodgy shit goes on in the industry? Hell, it just took me 2 seconds to find streaming video sites dedicated entirely to rape videos. I’d love to hear that one rationalised away.
Over-exposure to anything can change the perspective of even the most intelligent person, especially on a subconscious level. Arguing that over-exposure to porn can change one’s views about sex is not at all patronising; if intelligent people’s minds were so immune to influence, the advertising industry would collapse. Smart people purchase expensive versions of ordinary consumer goods as status symbols just as much as dumb people do, and intelligence has nothing to do with being affected by something like watching loads of porn.
Finally, to say that porn isn’t addictive is absurdly naive. I personally know porn addicts; they’re unable to control their usage of porn and consistently watch it far longer and more frequently than they want to. They will tell themselves, ‘I’ll stop at 2pm,’ but they’ll keep going until 3pm. To claim one can’t become addicted to porn is as ridiculous as to claim one can’t become addicted to television. Just because it isn’t a substance doesn’t mean you can’t become addicted to it. People can become addicted to TV, or gambling, or porn, or over-eating, or any number of things.
This article is not written to make porn users feel guilty, rather, to raise a perspective outside of extreme and unmitigated acceptance and extreme and unmitigated rejection of pornography.
I hope this clarifies stuff.
www.petemalicki.com
Pete I think you’ve also misinterpreted things. I don’t think people deny that porn can have psychological consequences for actors and actresses - I still don’t understand why you limit this concern to females - the point was this is not unique to porn. I have no doubt that being involved in porn has serious consequences for future employment, however this has more to do with society in general - the belief that anyone making money from sex is unethical and therefore it is legitimate to discriminate against them.
It’s not that I do not want to think about porn more critically, it’s that I want the same criticism applied to far more wide-spread and damaging concerns. You refer to rape sites, I agree they are abhorrent but they are not mainstream. The vast majority of rape victims have to compete with stereotypes promulgated in mainstream media - they have to convince people that yes they were raped by someone that they knew. They have to tell people that rape victims do not act in the way they are portrayed on television. They have to compete with the stereotype of the manipulative woman punishing a partner by making false complaints. These views are streamed into free to air television by just about every network. These views make it more difficult to report rape.
“I’m not a racist, but…” is the same logic as “I don’t hate Free Speech, but…”
The claim that people who support free speech are rabid extremists, while the author doesn’t want censorship at all but is merely drawing attention to several “problems” is tired and condescending, it is also ridiculous. And, it is exactly the same argument as “I’m not a racist, I just want to draw attention to some problems in not regulating racial interaction.”
It is extremely disingenuous to pretend that an article such as this will not be used to support Censorship and that the author did not fully intend that this should be the case. Coyly avoiding listing any solutions to mentioned “problems” and denying responsibility for anyone inferring from the article that the likely solution would be Censorship sounds to me like arguing for segregating races and then feigning surprise when it is suggested that Laws to enforce such an idea would be racist.
The author seems to me to have purposely avoided mentioning a single suggestion of a solution to the “problems” he has highlighted, and he has certainly not allowed any description of the legislation which would be necessary to enforce his “solutions”. It reaches the level of absurdity when the author thinks he can berate others for not acknowledging the existence of his “problems” when he himself thinks so little of his “problems” that he can not be bothered suggesting a single solution. And, having a man with no medical training claiming he has discovered an addiction is simply laughable.
What are the author’s proposed solutions, and how would he enforce them if not by the use of Censorship? Prayer to L Ron Hubbard? Magical Leprechauns? I know, he would use “The Secret”. The author doesn’t support Censorship, he believes in “The Secret”.
wow…. I think a lot of people here just reached their time limit for the day on streaming hosts.
Hi Sammic, thanks for your comment. I don’t mean to limit my concern to women, rather, to highlight them as they tend to be more affected. Often men’s faces aren’t even shown in porn. And I’m guessing there’s much more prejudice against women who’ve worked in the sex industry than men, going on general trends of prejudice (though this is pure speculation). Either way, discriminating against someone who’s worked in the sex industry is undeniably abhorrent.
The same criticisms are levelled against other and greater concerns than porn. But the presence of greater concerns does not eliminate the need to discuss a lesser one. I personally think the advertising industry is far worse than the porn industry (well, excluding some of the more dodgy things in porn of course) and is in more pressing need of regulation, but what’s the sense of adding such a perspective to an article about a separate topic? Porn is a particular interest so I’ve written a piece on it. This should not detract from the importance of addressing any other social concern, especially the bigger ones.
And ha ha, Wompster, nice one. See, the truth is, I hate free speech. In fact, I wish someone had had the good sense to censor this article entirely so this website could have spared the world of a view that contradicts your own. Left the rest of you alone, in your own words. Looks like you hate free speech as much as I do! Go us.
www.petemalicki.com
Bravo sir! What an effective use of the “I know you are, but what am I?” defense. Strangely I haven’t seen that defense used since Primary School, I can’t think why that should be the case. And, your choice to add Advertising to the growing list of things you want censored was simply brilliant. I’m sure that by combining those two things no one will notice that you have still yet to produce a single solution, let alone one not involving censorship.
Be sure to continue ignoring my first post, where I stated my position as: choose what you want to see and leave the rest of us alone. You’ll have to if you want to continue with your current superb strategy.
>>>no one will notice that you have still yet to produce a single solution, let alone one not involving censorship.
I’ve got an idea. How about engaging in public debate that points out how undesirable certain aspects of pornography are, so that consumers change their tastes, demand a different type of product and industry changes the nature of the product it supplies.
Or does drawing someone’s attention to the downside of their choice of entertainment count as a call for censorship these days?
Ok Pete. I see where you’re coming from. I think if this topic is of particular interest to you, next time you want to write an article about it, maybe try and interview some current and former porn stars yourself.
Thank you Sammic. I will definitely do that if I ever delve deeper into the topic (no pun intended). I’d be interested to meet some in person anyway - purely out of interest - rather than just digitally (perhaps slight pun intended).
Remember that this article is based on the consumer’s perspective of porn, rather than an attempt at grand statements about the industry. I’ll leave that to those with more internal knowledge (over, that’s definitely intentional - I’m going to stop now).
Best,
Pete
www.petemalicki.com
I love the post Pete - and I’m glad to see these opinions coming from a man. I know plenty of women who would agree with many of your points, but a lot of men seem to have a sense of entitlement when it comes to pornography. I think joak12 asks a good question that everyone has conveniently ignored. How popular with men would pornography be if, for the most part, it depicted men being anally and orally penetrated (etc) by women? The domination of women by men in mainstream pornography is just depressing. There is one point that has not really been mentioned - the rise of the consumption of pornography by men has led to an increase in relationship breakdowns. This is not because women are ‘uptight’ and need to ‘chill out’. This is because men in those relationships have closed their eyes to the harm that pornography does - because of their sense of entitlement.
The penis size argument is ludicrous - when it’s too big it hurts. That’s probably another reason that mainstream porn depicts enormous penises - it seems the logic in many films is that the more pain that can be inflicted on the female actors the better.