israel/palestine
14 Jan 2009
A Long History Of Killing Children
Israel has never been afraid of fighting dirty. But thanks to the internet, this time the world is watching like never before, writes Antoun Issa
Israel's highly publicised war in Gaza has drawn sharp condemnation from the UN and human rights groups, with some UN officials now calling for a war crimes investigation. With the death toll likely to pass 1000 (one-third of whom are children), public outrage and mass demonstrations across the world continue.In the face of new media technology, the internet, and citizen journalism, it has been impossible for Israel's powerful PR machine to compete with the gory images of strewn Palestinian bodies, many of them children, plastered all over the web.
Israel's actions have been caught on camera. The indiscriminate bombing of a UN school, a university, government buildings, police stations, and residential complexes all constitute serious breaches of the Geneva Conventions. The most recent controversy is over allegations that the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) is using white phosphorus and cluster bombs.
Of course, this isn't the first time Israel has subjected large civilian populations to the horrors of war. In fact, Israel has a long record of targeting civilian centres, and an equally long record of feebly justifying its actions.
In 1982, Israel launched a massive invasion of its northern neighbour, Lebanon, in a bloody campaign that claimed the lives of 17,500 people, many of them women and children. Eyewitness journalist to the invasion, Robert Fisk, claims to have seen first-hand the impacts of the use of phosphorus bombs during Israel's siege of Beirut.
"I saw two dead babies who, when taken from a mortuary drawer in West Beirut during the Israeli siege of the city, suddenly burst back into flames," Fisk wrote.
Israel's Operation Grapes of Wrath against Lebanon's Hezbollah in 1996 was also a bloody massacre. A UN compound in Qana, South Lebanon, that housed 800 refugees was hit by Israeli shells, killing 106 civilians. An Amnesty International investigation into the attack found that contrary to Israel's version of events, "the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) intentionally attacked the UN compound".
An Israeli military offensive in the West Bank refugee camps of Jenin and Nablus in 2002 claimed almost 500 Palestinian lives. Subsequent investigations by Amnesty International found that Israel committed "war crimes" in the camps, accusing the Jewish state of: unlawful killings; demolishing more than 3000 homes (many with residents still inside); using Palestinian civilians as "human shields" against Palestinian armed groups; destroying civilian infrastructure; cutting off electricity and water supplies; denying access to humanitarian aid; and torturing thousands of detainees. Sound familiar?
Most recently, the July 2006 war between Israel and Hezbollah saw much of Lebanon's civilian infrastructure reduced to rubble. In a war that claimed 1200 lives, the vast majority of which were Lebanese civilians of whom, again, roughly one-third were children (and displacing one-quarter of Lebanon's population), Israel was once more accused of grossly violating international law. Israel destroyed 31 vital government installations such as airports, electricity plants, ports and water facilities, 80 bridges, more than 900 commercial targets, over 30,000 residential properties, and several hospitals.
In addition to the widespread carnage inflicted upon Lebanon's civilian population, Israel again deployed its line of controversial weapons. In the dying days of the war, Israel sprayed South Lebanon with millions of cluster bombs that today continue to kill and maim Lebanese civilians returning to their war-torn homes and villages. After initially denying the use of white phosphorus in the 2006 war, Israel later conceded to using the burning, toxic weapon. Tel Aviv was also alleged to have used advanced uranium-based bombs on Lebanon.
Deliberate attacks on civilians were frequent in the July 2006 war. One such case was the Marwahin massacre. A convoy of 27 civilians, mainly children, attempted to flee the southern Lebanese village of Marwahin when it was fired upon by an Israeli Apache Helicopter at close range, killing 23 people.
"The pilot must have seen what he was doing," recounted one survivor who lost half his family in the killing. "He could see we were mostly children. The pick-up didn't have a roof. All the children were crammed in the back and clearly visible."
And we arrive at Gaza 2008-2009. A UN school slaughter of 43 children, a destroyed university, ravaged cities, falling phosphorus and cluster munitions, no electricity, scarce water, food and medicine. This scene has been revisited far too often.
Israel's lines of justification when confronted with the realities of its atrocities have also remained weak and inconsistent.
When news first hit the airwaves of an Israeli strike of the UN school in Gaza, the Israeli military claimed that it was responding to Hamas rockets fired from the school.
After confronted by an angry UN over the allegation that Hamas was using its facilities to launch rockets, Israel retracted its statement claiming it had mistakenly fired on the school, only to then claim that the rockets were coming from near the school.
Wobbly Israeli accounts are hardly new territory. Take for example Israel's initial response to its 1996 massacre of the UN's Qana compound in South Lebanon. Israel's then-Prime Minister Shimon Peres justified the attack by claiming it was in response to Hezbollah firing two Katyusha rockets. Aware of the absurdity of such an explanation, the Jewish state later stated it fired on the UN compound as a result of a technical error.
However, a UN investigation concluded that it was "unlikely that the shelling of the United Nations compound was the result of gross technical and/or procedural errors."
So why has the majority of the world suddenly found a conscience now?
New media and the advances of the internet have brought the images and live accounts into people's homes. Israel would have preferred to have no cameras present, as it has repeatedly done in the past and attempted to do again by blocking media access to Gaza. However, Tel Aviv has underestimated the efficacy of new media technology and the easy availability and accessibility to news coverage of the war that doesn't come from major satellite networks and newswires.
For many people in the world, this latest offensive in Gaza is the first time they have seen images of Israel's war crimes — courtesy of new media tools such as blogging, independent online media sources, and interactive sites such as Facebook, YouTube and Twitter. But for the Palestinians, Lebanese and much of the Arab world, Gaza is simply another addition to a long list of Israeli abuses.
But while new media technology has helped to build a massive international network in solidarity with the Palestinians, it has done little to influence the men and women who hold the reins of power. The blind eye turned by world leaders (including those of Australian leaders) to Israel's constant violation of international law in 60 years of conflict bears much responsibility for today's Gaza war.
The hope for an end to this conflict is as distant today as it was the day Israel declared independence in 1948 on the backs of a broken Palestinian people. Israel has maintained the same policy of belligerence since its inception and continues to show complete disregard for international institutions and conventions.
Gazans, Palestinians, Lebanese and many in solidarity with their plight sit and wonder how many more Gazas, Qanas and Jenins will take place before the world says No to Israel. The only thing certain is that Gaza won't be the last victim.
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More demonisation of Israel.
What does this article achieve, newmatilda? Its title is "A Long History of Killing Children". It is another propaganda piece.
This kind of thing ranks poorly with NM’s coverage in other policy areas. NM’s standards seem non-existent when it comes to this particular issue. Any old pro-Hamas, anti-Israel trash will be published.
The Antisemtic propaganda continues in full force.
What Israel is doing is not right. Not even Israelis want it. There is nothing Israelis would want more than for Hamas and the people of Gaza to forget about them.
However, these people -including the writer of this piece- who are so outraged at the consequences of this War, turn a blind eye not just to the murders committed by Hamas against their own people let alone the Israelis, but to the despotic and brutal murders committed in Syria, Lebanon, Morocco, Iran, Libya by Muslim regimes (there are others but the list would be too long), which don’t give a toss about committing human rights violations of the worst order.
As Thomas Friedman, the well known New York Times correspondent, once wrote:
"Criticizing Israel is not Anti-Semitic; and saying so is vile. But singling out Israel for opprobium and international sanction -out of all proportion to any other party in the Middle East- is anti-Semitic and not saying so is dishonest."
This article and a number of others, plus comments of the most offensive kind, fall in the latter category.
No this is not anti-semitic. It is pro-humanitarian. If the Israeli government were happy about what they are doing in Gaza, why would they ban the mainstream media?
There is a massacre or series of massacres happening in Gaza at the present time and these are being perpetrated by the Israeli government. Of course that is a cause for outrage! What is even more outrageous is that most world governments including the Australian government have failed to condemn these atrocities.
I am outraged at what is being done to the people of Gaza. I would be outraged if this were happening to any group of people anywhere in the world. Why should I be more ready to condone these actions because they are perpetrated by the Israeli government? Why should I be more ready to condone these actions because they have committed similar atrocities before?
Spot on, eet! Have a read of this, written by a former Gazan, to see how the Arab states themselves have deliberately exacerbated the conflict:
The Gaza Prison Camp
Nonie Darwish
"Gaza conditions at ‘40-year low’" the BBC headlined last week. Rarely a week goes by without a politician or organization deploring the humanitarian situation in the Gaza Strip. But I do not hear anyone describe its root cause: 60 years of Arab policy aimed at maintaining Palestinians as stateless refugees in order to pressure Israel.
I lived in Gaza as a child in the 1950s when Egypt conducted guerrilla-style operations against Israel from Gaza, then under Egyptian control. My father commanded these operations, carried out by "fedayeen," (which means, "self sacrifice"). This became the frontline of Arab Jihad against Israel. My father was killed by Israel in a targeted assassination in 1956.
Today the Gaza Strip, now under the control of Hamas, has become the Gaza prison camp for 1.5 million Palestinians and continues to serve as the launching pad for attacks against Israeli citizens.
This is the legacy of the Arab world’s Palestinian refugee policy, started 60 years ago, when the Arab League implemented special laws regarding Palestinians that all Arab countries had to abide by. Arab countries could not absorb Palestinians. Even if a Palestinian married a citizen of an Arab country, that Palestinian could not become a citizen of his or her spouse’s country. A Palestinian can be born, live and die in an Arab country, but never gain its citizenship. Even now I receive e-mails from Palestinians telling me they cannot have a Syrian passport, for example, and must remain Palestinian even though they have never set foot in the West Bank or Gaza. Forcing the Palestinian identity on them is designed to perpetuate the Palestinian refugee status. Palestinians have been used and abused by Arab nations, and by Palestinian terrorists, for the purpose of destroying Israel.
The 22 Arab states certainly do not have a shortage of land. Many surrounding Arab areas, such as the Sinai Peninsula, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, are very sparsely populated. But absorbing Palestinians would end their refugee status and their desire to harm Israel.
Arab wealth, which is increasing dramatically because of skyrocketing oil prices, is not used to improve the lives, infrastructure and economy of the people of the West Bank and Gaza. Instead, it supports terror groups who reject Israel’s existence and oppose peace with Israel. The average Gaza man has a better employment opportunity if he joins Hamas.
Gazans’ breach of their checkpoint with Egypt in January, orchestrated by Hamas, is a result of the Palestinian refugee policy. The checkpoints on the Arab side of Gaza could not keep the inmates inside. The Arab plan to overpopulate Gaza exploded in the wrong direction. After this explosion, Suleiman Awwad, an Egyptian administration spokesman, said, "Egypt is a respected state, its border cannot be breached and its soldiers should not be lobbed with stones." In other words, Egypt is not like Israel, which is a disrespected state. Gazans should not direct the violence at Egypt, only at Israel. This is Arab conventional wisdom.
Last month Hamas threatened to bring 40,000 Palestinians, primarily children and women, to the Gaza border with Israel to protest Israel’s restrictions on Gaza. Some Hamas leaders hinted they would send these protestors to breach the border, once again demonstrating that the Palestinian terrorists have no qualms about endangering the lives of innocent people — Israelis or Palestinians. Fortunately, only 5,000 showed up.
But Hamas did succeed two days later in killing an Israeli: a 47 year-old father of four during a rocket attack from Gaza while he was sitting in his car next to Sapir College near Sderot. Two weeks earlier, two Israeli brothers, Osher and Rami Twito, ages 8 and 19, were seriously injured by a rocket from Gaza while buying their father a birthday present. Osher’s left leg had to be amputated.
Israel completely left Gaza in August 2005. In May and June 2007, Hamas waged war against its Palestinian brothers in Fatah to gain control of Gaza. Hamas intensified its rockets attacks on Israeli towns, compelling Israel to take economic and military measures against Gaza. Hamas has become a danger not only to Israel, but to Palestinians and to neighboring Arab countries, as well. Nevertheless, the Arab world still refuses to see its role in creating this monster. It is difficult to find a similar situation in human history: the intentional creation of a refugee status for a million and a half people, sustained for 60 years. The Arab world has cut its nose to spite its face.
The world needs to understand that this dangerous mess started when 22 Arab countries agreed to create a human prison called the Gaza Strip. Arabs claim they love the Palestinian people, but they seem more interested in sacrificing them. It is time for the Arab world to open their side of the borders and absorb the Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza who wish to be absorbed. It is time for the Arab world to truly help the Palestinians, not use them.
Nonie Darwish, who grew up in Cairo and Gaza City, is the author of, "Now They Call me Infidel."
(from www.huffingtonpost.com)
eet if and when our government ever supports the governments in Syria, Lebanon, Morocco, Iran or Libya killing people you might have a point.
Israel has the dubious record of illegal occupation NOT any of the nations you list.
It is not out of all proportion to expect more from a nation that CLAIMS to be democratic than one under a dictatorship.
I do not hold Iranian civilians accountable for their government quite simply because they have NO say in it.
Israeli’s have continued to elect representatives who persist with ILLEGAL OCCUPATION and settlement building, discriminate against their own Arab citizens and killing children.
It is most appropriate to hold Israelis more accountable than those who suffer under non elected rulers.
Oh and if we’re talking crimes committed by Lebanese, you’ll find BY FAR the most appalling was committed by CHRISTIAN Phalangists under the watchful gaze of the good ol’ boys of the IDF
Is it just me finding the criticism of NM to be a tad "by the numbers" - folks who’ve never popped up previously suddenly claiming that NM is so much better on other topics - have they ever actually read NM or just the email from Colin Rubenstein asking them to flood the media with the boring spin?
Rubbish alphacrucis. As everything in the article is fact whereas Israeli propaganda is often lies, the problem is on your side for intentionally remaining blind to the atrocities being inflicted on innocent civilians.
Bombing Gaza back to stone age conditions will not bring peace to Israel, which is what we here would cheer. The tactics are a failure and a war crime, time to change the tune on this broken record and put yourself in the real victims shoes. What would you do in the reverse of the situation? Lie back and take it? I severely doubt that and so don’t expect the Palestinians to remain cowering under daily Israeli humiliation and killing.
Again I say it is for the the future peace of all Israelis, not just for the power games of politicians.
Noni Darwish is a widely discredited freak bought and paid for by the Zionist lobby
That you have to resort to her garbage is illustrative to say the least
There is no question that the people of Gaza are both dispossessed and oppressed. Freedom for the Gazans, like the other Palestinians in what part of Palestine has been allowed to remain to them, has been non existent for many years.
But since Hamas seized power in Gaza - to which, in any event it was entitled, having won an election - conditions in Gaza had become far worse with the imposition of the blockade.
Now we have the Israeli invasion - the invasion by the fourth largest military in the world, using high tech weapons, planes, and tanks, against a rag tag resistance armed with mostly hand guns and a few home made missiles.
And while the slaughter and destruction of infrastructure continues in Gaza, Israel continues to build and expand settlements in the West Bank, in violation of Security Council resolutions.
Is Israel serious about a two state solution and peace in the region? Or is Israel interested only in extending hegemony over all of historical Palestine, reserving Bantustan-like enclaves for those Palestinians who don’t flee (and it is not clear where they can flee to given their total enforced isolation from the world) or die?
What we can say about the current "incursion" is that no matter how many Palestinians are killed, peace can not be enforced. And the parents, sons, daughters of the murdered will inevitably form the nucleus of further resistance.
Perhaps if Israel approached the issue with promises rather than demands, with offers of peace rather than arbitrary invasion and death, there might be some hope.
You might also want to look a little closer at Darwish’s religious views. They’re FAR more offensive to Jewish people than anything said by NM.
She is an extreme right wing fundie Christian who can’t wait for God to kill all but a handful of Jews and let all the good Christians go to heaven.
She "supports" Israel because she WANTS and end of days war.
Strangely I don’t think you’ll find a lot of support for her insanity outside the redneck US Bible belt.
Excellent article by Antoun Issa.
Apartheid Israel kills Occupied Palestinians and Palestinian children in particular either violently (shells, bullets, high explosives, phosphorus, cluster bombs) or non-violently (by war criminal deprivation of life-sustaining food and medicine).
The under-5 infant deaths in the Occupied Palestinian Territory can be estimated from readily-accessible data from the WHO, UNICEF and the UN Population Division (see: http://esa.un.org/unpp/ ) that , for example, also tells us that 45.9% of Occupied Palestinians are aged 0-14 years i.e. that over 50% of the Gazans are KIDS and that 75% are women and children.
There is only one well-known four-letter word (—— ) in the academic political science lexicon that comes anywhere near to describing racist Zionist Israelis subjecting 45.9% of 1.5 million Gazans who are aged under 15 years to naval and tank shelling from sea and land and from the air, to high explosive bombs and phosphorus bombs.
UN Population Division data (see: http://esa.un.org/unpp/ ) indicate that post-1967 Occupied Palestinian Territory under-5 infant deaths totalled about 0.2 million (about 80% avoidable prior to 2006 and now about 90% avoidable because of active blockading and killing by the Israelis).
UNICEF data (see: http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/index.html ) tell us that 3,000 under-5 year old Occupied Palestinian infants die EACH YEAR (about 80% pre-2006 - i.e. 2,400 ANNUALLY - and about 90% now from DEPRIVATION - just as 1 in 6 of the 5-6 million Jews killed by the Nazis in WW2 died from DEPRIVATION according to leading Holocaust scholar Professor SDir Martin Gilbert of Oxford University: Gilbert, M. (1969), Jewish History Atlas (Weidenfeld & Nicolson, London).
Gilbert, M. (1982), Atlas of the Holocaust (Michael Joseph, London).
) .
These deaths from DEPRIVATION are due to gross, war criminal, racist Zionist (RZ) Israeli violation of Articles 55 and 56 of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War (see: http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/92.htm ) that demand that an Occupier provides life-sustaining food and medical requisites "to the fullest extent of the means available to it".
The core messages from the WW2 Eiuropean Holocaust (30 million Slav, Jewish and Roma dead) are (A) "zero tolerance for racism", (B) "never again to anyone" and (C) "bear witness" - sacred injunctions grossly violated by the racist Zionists and their Bush-ite and neo-Bush-ite allies.
Thus (A) Zionism in word and deed is RACISM, involving the race-specific invasion occupation, devastation, disempowering, dispossession, mass abusive imprisonment and ethnic cleansing (genocide) of the Indigenous Palestinian population.
(B) the racist Zionist colonizers have been killing Indigenous Palestinians from the 1920s (about the time Australians STOPPED massacring Indigenous Australians) and they are STILL murdering Indigenous Palestinians with shelling, high explosive bombs and rockets and phosphorus to burn them alive. Violent and non-violent avoidable Occupied Palestinian deaths this century alone total about 42,000 of whom over half are CHILDREN (for details see " Palestinian-Israeli Death Ratios. Nazi-style Israeli Gaza War Crimes ": http://mwcnews.net/content/view/27795/42/ ).
(C) The racist Zionists LIE, censor and obfuscate re the carnage they are committing in the name of race-based Apartheid Israel.
50% of the horribly abused Occupied Palestinians (Arab Semites) are children and 75% women and children.
Anyone who KNOWINGLY denies, ignores, excuses, minimizes, obfuscates, supports, advocates or is otherwise complicit in the gross abuse and killing of women and children - or indeed of anyone - has crossed the line between decent humanity and Nazi-style barbarism.
According to outstanding, anti-racist Jewish American lawyer and President of the US National lawyers Guild, Professor Marjorie Cohn, QUOTE: "Israel’s air strikes and ground assault on the people of Gaza have little to do with the Gazan rockets, which hadn’t killed any Israelis for a year before Israel’s current military operation. Israel’s leaders are bombing and attacking Gaza in order to gain an advantage in the upcoming Israeli elections in February. " END QUOTE (see her article on Israeli war crimes entitled : "Israel’s Collective Punishment of Gaza ": http://mwcnews.net/content/view/27707/42/).
As of Day 18 of the racist Zionist (RZ) Massacre of Indigenous Palestinians in the Gaza ConcentrationCamp: 980 dead, 4,400 wounded in Nazi-style Israeli military attacks on one of the most densely populated urban areas of the Planet VERSUS NO Israeli deaths from Gaza missiles in the preceding year) (see Sameh Habeeb’s daily reports from inside the Israeli Gaza Concentration Camp: http://www.gazatoday.blogspot.com/ ).
Peace is the only way but Silence kills and Silence is complicity.
"Noni Darwish is a widely discredited freak bought and paid for by the Zionist lobby"
I could say the inverse about anything you deem fit to post. This is an ad hominem argument that has no weight. Respond to the content. I’ve been responding to the content of people I have quite literally no respect for - why are you special because you have a different opinion? Defend your opinion. Deconstruct Darwish.
alphacrucis there is nothing to respond to in your posts except blatant falsehoods - if you want to support someone who claims that ONLY Muslims have ever committed terrorist attacks FINE
you want to give credibility to someone who claims that her father was an Egyptian Jihadist despite the fact that he was a SUPPORTER OF NASSER thats fine.
It makes you look desperate. But so does everything else you posted.
I care not whether you "respect" me or not.
Darwish purports to be a scholar with nothing but a heavily biased personal view to back that up.
Tell me alphacrucis - how do YOU figure her father managed to be a free officer AND a Jihadist at the same time.
Readers of NM who are reading these posts and scratching their heads are right to wonder how this publication could get it so right on so many issues, but launch into a radically distant orbit on this particular issue.
This issue has been hijacked by pro-Palestinian ideologues with an agenda. There is no debate; if you disagree with their line, you are labeled a "Zionist propagandist oppressor" or some such thing.
As far as I know, unlike huffingtonpost.com, newmatilda has not yet published the work of pro-Israel progressives. I look forward to a change in this approach, and some genuine debate on this vital issue.
Nothing really to add, except to remember that Zionists have a long history of ‘terrorism.’ Remember later PM Begin and the King David Hotel, or later PM Shamir and the assassination of UN rep Bernadotte, or Deir Yasin - the list goes on. And what is the Ruddster doing: stop the rockets - for G0d’s sake Kevin, what about the disproportionality, or rockets as a response to a crippling blockade. Could we lobby our MPs at least, and get a less biased response from our politicians?
MICHAEL
alphacrucis given you’ve never paid any attention to NM until they posted opinion critical of Israel I suspect no regular readers are going to care too much that you think NM has got it wrong on this issue. How would you know? Have you ever read anything else posted here? You’ve certainly never commented on any other article.
Seems that it is YOU not others who are "obsessed with Israel"
as for your claim that you’re being picked on by mean evil terrorist supporters who call you a
"Zionist propagandist oppressor" or some such thing."
well it that any more offensive or any less tawdry and pathetic than you calling people pro Hamas?
I don’t debate with Anti-Semites. Anti-Semitism is devoid of reason and then beyond rational debate.
Just in reply to the charge of ‘occupation" by Israel. That is nonsense. Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza in 2005. Hamas continued to strike by launching missiles from there into Israel. There was no longer any ‘occupation’ which justifies it. Hamas does this because they don’t want just Gaza. They want Tel Aviv, Haifa, and everything in between. Their stated (in writing) objective is the destruction of Israel. If Hamas had Israel’s military might, Jews would have pushed into the ocean.
Now you can carry on publishing Anti-Semitic headlines like this shameful one: "A Long History of Killing Children". The editor should think again, and then again.
eet, who are you to threaten the editor?
And take your accusations of anti-semitism elsewhere, the topic in discussion is the occupation, genocide and destruction of a nation by the filthy racist state of Israel.
There are no anti-semites here.
eet if one can not enter or leave Gaza without the permission of Israeli authorities then it’s STILL occupied.
if Gaza has no control over it’s ports or airspace then it is STILL occupied
I suppose I could just use your reasoned debate tactic, ie;
I don’t debate with those who justify the murder of children, kid killers are beyond rational debate…but that would probably be viewed as not only unnecessarily insulting towards you but downright offensive.
"alphacrucis given you’ve never paid any attention to NM until they posted opinion critical of Israel I suspect no regular readers are going to care too much that you think NM has got it wrong on this issue. How would you know? Have you ever read anything else posted here?"
You love these ad hominem attacks, don’t you? You don’t need to be a regular NM reader to criticise the prevailing view of the ragtag bunch of loudmouth Israel-bashers here. And anybody should be welcome to comment and question, anytime they like.
Not that it matters, or that it’s any of your business, but I have subscribed to NM for over a year and have been reading it for at least 2.
Like most readers, I do not generally comment.
Good luck coming up with some more ad hominem attacks.
"eet, who are you to threaten the editor? And take your accusations of anti-semitism elsewhere, the topic in discussion is the occupation, genocide and destruction of a nation by the filthy racist state of Israel. There are no anti-semites here."
He didn’t threaten the editor. He pointed out that the headline was aggressive and antisemitic.
I agree with eet. It is antisemitic.
And there are certainly antisemites here. Rockjaw, from what I’ve seen, half your posts have been antisemitic. You can’t avoid the charge by claiming you’re Jewish - referring to the Jewish community and Israelis the way you do is unacceptable and contravenes the RDA. Even the people who agree with you think your behaviour is atrocious - rosross wrote: "Rockjaw, I do think your go too far. Abusing Israelis and making racist comments doesn’t help your case."
Example of your antisemitism: "They are a nation of fat overfed lazy and genocidal parasites, pathological liars who live off the hard working Americans and the proceeds of the world’s biggest crime syndicates including the biggest sex slave rings, child pornography syndicates, even the biggest date rape drug manufacturers in the world operate freely out of Israel. The list of filth and iniquity out of Israel just goes on and on."
Elsewhere, you have referred to Jewish supporters of Israel as "filthy animals".
So please, enough self-righteous bullshit.
"eet if one can not enter or leave Gaza without the permission of Israeli authorities then it’s STILL occupied."
Um, wrong. Every country has the right to control its borders. Gaza has a border with Egypt and I don’t see you claiming that Egypt is "occupying" Gaza.
Hypocrite!
missnomar: "I don’t debate with those who justify the murder of children, kid killers are beyond rational debate…but that would probably be viewed as not only unnecessarily insulting towards you but downright offensive."
Interesting, since you are uncritically appearing on a forum on the same side as posters who justify the intentionalkilling of Israeli children as "resistance".
Could you be more hypocritical?
Gaza "bombed back to the stone age"? That’s where they were before Israel was reestablished in 1948!
Look all, the Palestinians will only survive if they accept that they have become pawns of the large Arab states, and when they learn to love their own children more than they hate the Israelis.
Tzvi
Revilo, it should be revile because you revolt me. Palestine was not living in the stone ages in 1948 and there were a number of Australian hospitals and things in Gaza during the 1940’s. Are you completely devoid of any knowledge of history?
The land is Palestine. Israel does not exist in law and never has.
And for the clowns carrying on about women and children being used to "breach the wall’ well they have an absolute right to and I would be one of the first at the fence.
it’s an absurd tyranny of the Pro-Israel lobby when they say ‘the arabs don’t love their children, we must bomb the children to save them’.
Maryj: "The land is Palestine. Israel does not exist in law and never has."
Perhaps you should join the UN and help them in their anti-Israel crusade. Oh, wait… Israel is a UN member state - http://www.un.org/members/list.shtml - which means that Israel is globally recognised as a legitimate, independent, Jewish state.
"it’s an absurd tyranny of the Pro-Israel lobby when they say ‘the arabs don’t love their children, we must bomb the children to save them’."
If Palestinian terrorists love their children so much, why do they send them off to blow themselves up? And why do they store their rockets in schools and hospitals?
Use your brain.
If today’s anti-Israel journalists were in charge in 1943: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/77/213535398_6057b8beef.jpg?v=0
"If today’s anti-Israel journalists were in charge in 1943:"
I wouldn’t worry about that alphacrucis, today’s media simply places a complete media blackout on all news from Gaza effective in most major media outlets in most English speaking western countries.
Don’t you also wonder why that is? Do you think perhaps they are hiding murder from us? Genocide?
Given that our media has refused to tell us anything about Gaza, I wonder how they will report the news about why so many countries are booting their Israeli ambassadors out of their countries? Why there are millions of people across europe and the UK out in the streets rioting and demonstrating?
The media is the nervous system of modern society, deaden that nervous system and you can amputate limbs, organs and basically destroy any part of that society which pleases you please and without anybody so much as suspecting it.
These are truly Orwellian times we are living in.
By the way, I am still confused about your objection to my use of the description "They are a nation of fat overfed lazy and genocidal parasites, pathological liars …etc"
Now Olmert, who is undeniably fat, certainly genocidal and obviously a parasite as well as a pathological liar, would you prefer that I called him "lean" or "slim"?
What the heck, let me try to please you anyway, here goes…"Olmert is a lean, slim, tall handsome criminal genocidal parasite and a pathological liar"
There, see? Now that I have lied like a modern zionist do I finally receive your approval?
On a more positive note, I have just this minute received news that two medical practitioner friends of ours who left Australia for Egypt on Sunday have managed to cross into Gaza at the Rafah border crossing.
One of the two, a decorated war veteran, tells me that the Egyptian side of the border shows obvious signs of the conditions in Gaza with buildings and windows cracked and broken from the impact of the bombing.
So, since we no longer have a media who can tell us of these things, for those who are interested, the Egyptians have finally opened the border crossing, although I cannot determine whether the border is officially opened or whether people have just barged their way through the crossing.
If the two doctors survive the journey the Gazans will have two more much needed medical staff to help the wounded and the dying but we are deeply concerned for the wellbeing of our two courageous friends.
alphacrucis are you REALLY THAT dumb that you didn’t get the point of mmy last post? You didn’t get that it was pointing out what an unbelievable hypocrite you are? You didn’t get that? REALLY?
Wow talk about blind
"Um, wrong. Every country has the right to control its borders. Gaza has a border with Egypt and I don’t see you claiming that Egypt is "occupying" Gaza.
Hypocrite!"
Bzzzt wrong. Tell me ONE other nations who’s airspace is controlled by another nation…just one
I think you should leave the spin to someone else - you’re really not intelligent enough for this
alphacrucis since you feel no compunction whatsoever in labelling others anti semites I’m just gonna refer to you as the babykiller from now on.
You are a fucking tool - hows that for ad hom
Israel, Israel, Israel. Yes, the world’s smallest national killing-machine is at it again, at least according to some of the correspondents above who expertly spill out the vitriol without adding anything remotely constructive. As if Hamas (or, indeed, Hezbollah) have ever been remotely concilliatory towards Israel and Jews at large, as if they actively encourage free speech in their patch, and as if they actively tolerate/accept a religious minority on their patch..
Say what you like about Israel, they do, at least encourage free speech and accept religious minorities on their patch without question.
Another question for those who have "contributed" already: have you ever lived under occupation, discrimination and fear? I have. I don’t agree with everything that Israel does, but at least I can understand why it does what it does.
Freedom for Palestine, freedom for Israel, peace for both nations, and everybody else just bugger off.
i don’t understand, how is NM singling out Israel and/or jews? this article published in the same newsletter http://newmatilda.com/2009/01/13/sri-lankas-war-journalists reports on the sri lankan government’s murder of journalists. is it anti-buddhist to say sri lanka murders its journalists?
Now, Jack03, catch yourself on and have a wee read and a wee think..
ok, patman, i’ve had a wee, a read and a think. now what?
War crimes? If Hamas followed the Geneva Conventions and Palestine respected all of the UN resolutions concerning the formation of two states, none of this carnage would have taken place.
Israel kills Gazan children because Hamas does not keep its arms and munitions storage and firing posts separate from its population, therefore forcing Israel to fight Hamas as they cower amongst the general community.
However, Israel has decided her own safety and survival is now at stake and therefore it is forced to commit ‘war crimes’; as a direct consequence of Hamas using its population as human shields.
And as far as war crimes are concerned, Hamas and other fundamentalist Islamic proxies have deliberately targetted and murdered innocent Israeli civilians and young children, to the extent where a wall had to be built to keep out these mass murderers.
Israel has no choice but to continue to dismantle the war machine of Hamas (as it did with Hizbullah in Lebanon) as it is fighting for its very survival.
And that (believe it or not) means all of the values we hold dear to us in the West. Israel is at the frontier of the West and as such we owe a lot to her for her brave and courageous stance in the face of such hateful and immoral fundamentalist Islamic foes, who so obviously have no intention of even attempting to form a peaceful Palestinian state alongside Israel.
"As if Hamas (or, indeed, Hezbollah) have ever been remotely concilliatory towards Israel and Jews at large"
why should they? were the French resistance conciliatory towards the Nazi’s, were the VietCong conciliatory towards the US army? Of course not.
what a woefully stupid arguement
"as if they actively encourage free speech in their patch, and as if they actively tolerate/accept a religious minority on their patch"
Ethnic & religious minorities are not only not exploited/oppresed by Hamas but they stood for election as Hamas endorsed candidates
Hamas has NO laws barring minorities from marrying/building homes/travelling etc unlike the apartheid state of Israel
Misnomar, if i may add to your comment the fact that the Israeli Defence Minister promised to commit a "holocaust" against the Palestinian people.
There can be no doubt that this genocide which we are all witnessing today is a wilful one, see:-
http://bodyontheline.wordpress.com/2008/03/01/israel-promises-a-holocaus…
And for the sanitised version in the Israeli mouthpiece see :- http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/01/world/middleeast/01mideast.html
Rockjaw, for ongoing news which is not part of the medisa black out you might try :- http://www.presstv.ir/watch_live.aspx which has constant live updates of the holocaust as it is being committed.
"i don’t understand, how is NM singling out Israel and/or jews? this article published in the same newsletter http://newmatilda.com/2009/01/13/sri-lankas-war-journalists reports on the sri lankan government’s murder of journalists. is it anti-buddhist to say sri lanka murders its journalists?"
Jack, thank you for pointing this out - but that is a single, fairly polite, newsmagazine-style, not to mention well-written article which professionally describes what is going on in Sri Lanka.
There are currently at least five actively commented-on viciously anti-Israel threads on NM right now. All of those articles use the most incendiary anti-Israel language. Not one pro-Israel progressive has been permitted to publish an article on this website.
THIS post - the one we’re commenting on now - is titled, "A Long History of Killing Children". Talk about referencing the Blood Libel!
"Hamas has NO laws barring minorities from marrying"
Um, misnomar, you’re going to defend Hamas’ radical Islamic regime? Kneecapping, honour killings, suppression of Christians and other religious minorities, random kidnappings of Westerners and journalists… the list goes on.
And remind me - is there a single Jew living in Gaza right now? Or is Gaza now ethnically clean?
Rogerio - the fact that Matan Vilnai acted like a buffoon at a press conference a year ago bears no relation to what is going on in Gaza right now.
I think anybody recognises that, if Israel intended a "genocide", it could quite easily burn Gaza overnight. How anybody could seriously suggest that 1000 Palestinian deaths - most of them Hamas gunmen - constitutes a "genocide" truly boggles the mind.
Unless you are interested in completely cleansing all meaning of the word.
So how exactly is the current Israel offensive going to bring about peace?
It is not intended to bring peace. It is intended to stop the rockets with a message: if you fire rockets, Israel will respond.
I’m not sure what you would have liked Israel to do. Thousands of rockets have falled on or near Israeli population centres. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and there was no blockade until mid-2007. Why were there rockets in those 2 years, and what could Israel have done to stop them?
Please explain.
"I think anybody recognises that, if Israel intended a "genocide", it could quite easily burn Gaza overnight. How anybody could seriously suggest that 1000 Palestinian deaths - most of them Hamas gunmen - constitutes a "genocide" truly boggles the mind." - alphacrucis, you are not making a fool of yourself, quite obviously have already qualified as one.
You and your type are actively attempting to submerge Western liberal cultures in your filth with your ethos of criminality which you would have us all share as if our societies would willingly consent to being a part of your genocidal mob.
I recall "anti-semite" Rabbi Arik Ascherman’s words, after he was "headbutted" by an Israeli thug for coming to the aid of a young Palestinian child being used as a human shield by the criminal mobsters in the IDF and who declared how sad it was that one Jew should have to risk being attacked by another Jew in order to come to defence of the innocent. Perhaps somebody could find a url linking to that incident.
For a current record of the rising death toll of civilians being murdered in Gaza see: -
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/14/gaza-city-fighiting-israel-u…
And look at the faces of the dead and dying who relied on us to save their miserable lives and think of the all the other innocent lives which will be lost because, once again, nobody cared.
And don’t bother responding alphacrucis, defence of the innocent is obviously a concept which is lost on you.
More claptrap from Rogerio, who refused again to defend his own claim of "genocide".
Meanwhile, back in reality where the jihadi Hamas war criminals are waging holy war with the infidel Jewish state:
Hamas is close to agreeing to a crippling ceasefire agreement. It is frightened of losing power. See http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1055543.html
The IDF is satisfied that the goal of restoring Israel deterrence has been achieved.
I would like to see the operation continue until Hamas is toppled, but the longer the conflict goes on, the more unforeseen events could occur. Already a friend of my family has been seriously injured in Gaza. Israel has done very well in 3 weeks of fighting with the jihadis.
Congratulations, Israel.
Wow, sorry to hear about your friend alphacrucis. Was he injured by one of those dangerous babies you lot have had such success killing in Gaza?
The UN president of the general assembly has labelled the assault genocide:
"Miguel d’Escoto Brockmann also told Al Jazeera he had never believed that the UN Security Council would be able to stop the violence in Gaza and that Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, had practically told the UN to “mind their own business” by continuing the offensive.
“The number of victims in Gaza is increasing by the day… The situation is untenable. It’s genocide,” d’Escoto said at the UN in New York."
So, the UN calls it genocide, and the UN conventions define it as genocide, google definitions (an easy access route to dictionary definitions and common language usage) also provides:
"systematic killing of a racial or cultural group "
"Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group"
"The systematic killing of substantial numbers of people on the basis of ethnicity, religion, political opinion, social status, or other"
"Systematic, state-sponsored or encouraged killings of members of a specific, identifiable group."
All of which clearly apply ….
wikipedia quotes from the convention:
"Genocide is the organized attempt to deliberately and systematically destroy,
in whole or in part
, an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group."
Several British papers, usually quite happy to echo the official Israeli line, have thrown the term out there following this latest attack.
One begins to get a little suspicious when its noted that the only people strongly denying the correct use of the term are the ones engaged in or supportive of the activity deemed as ‘genocidal’ by everyone else.
cheers,
Derek
The fact that the antisemite chief of the General Assembly has described the situation as genocide means literally nothing.
I’ve already discussed this at length in another thread. Even if all 1000 fatalities had been civilians, it would be a clear war crime, but would still not even come close to being genocide.
But most of the fatalities have been gunmen. Even Hamas admits this.
To describe the killing of what has been mostly Hamas combatants as genocide would be to completely strip the word of its meaning.
Palestinian children are recruits of Hamas. They are indocrinated, trained in the syle of NaziJugend. A 15 years old who fires a Kalatchnikov on Israeli, Is he a child? Gaza children are abused by Hamas, are killed by Hamas and used as human shields. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTGbP55HGi8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK2ukVCoWUU&feature=related
These days, when a racist genocidal Zionist accuses somebody of anti-semitism it is normally a wonderful compliment.
It must be terrible to live in such a cruel world alpha, where the whole world hates you for murdering 1000 people and where all the world’s leading figures are anti-semites.
Tragic.
Did those naughty Palestinians kids you murdered damage any of your nice pretty tanks with their stones alpha?
You are going to need those tanks for the next time Hezbollah gets p!ssed off with you lot.
Tell me alpha, will you be doing tchuva for all those innocent people you murdered?
See alpha, you might trivialise the murder of those civilians, but see, that is because you support your hardened criminal zionist theocracy, but, if you were a REAL Jew, you would be outraged at the murder of those innocent people, but I somehow know that is lost on you alpha.
Rockjaw, you talk far too much for an antisemite.
exactly.
As far as I know, the language has not yet evolved to the point where "Israel" is synonymous with "Jews", and therefore, as far as I know, "Anti-Israel" is not yet synonymous with "anti-semite".
I am sure the Israeli government THINKS it represents all Jews, but it may have been misinformed there. Ehud Olmert is not yet the Jewish Pope.
BPobjie, I have explained this ad nauseam in various other threads, but here’s the short version:
You are being just as simplistic as the Jew who screams "antisemite" at any wrong done to him, or any wrong done to Israel.
The fact that not all criticism of Israel is antisemitic does not mean that no criticism of Israel is antisemitic.
Check your Venn diagram.
By the way, BPobjie: the silence of New Matilda on vicious, inflammatory, racist, antisemitic material being posted as articles and comments is shameful. NM’s tacit approval of the conduct of Rockjaw and others is also shameful.
Unless you didn’t catch the one where he called Israelis and their supporters (ie the majority of Jews) "filthy animals".
Or do no standards apply if you substitute "Jew" with "Israeli" or "Zionist"?
Can you think of another state about which such language would be acceptable?
I forgot about the one where Rockjaw referred to the Jewish community in Sydney as "fat pigs".
Calling your article: "A Long History of Killing Children".
That’s not antisemitism, it’s legitimate criticism of Israel.
"Genocidal murderers"
More legitimate criticism of Israel.
It boggles the mind, BPobjie, that you could defend this stuff.
As I said, alpha, since "Israel" is not synonymous with "Jew", saying that israel has a long history os killing children is not an anti-semitic statement in itself. You say it is, but you haven’t produced any rationale for why anyone should accept your interpretation.
"The fact that not all criticism of Israel is antisemitic does not mean that no criticism of Israel is antisemitic."
And the fact that some criticism of Israel may be anti-semitic does not mean that a person such as yourself does not need to demonstrate why any particular criticism is, if he wants to be taken seriously.
"Unless you didn’t catch the one where he called Israelis and their supporters (ie the majority of Jews) "filthy animals".
Or do no standards apply if you substitute "Jew" with "Israeli" or "Zionist"?"
Why would you substitue "Jew" with Israeli" or "Zionist"? If he said Israeli, I assume he meant Israeli, until you present a convincing case as to how you know he secretly meant something else. Therefore, talk of substitution is meaningless; until you show why someone criticising Israel is really criticising Jews generally, we have no cause to see that statement as being about Jews generally.
"Calling your article: "A Long History of Killing Children".
That’s not antisemitism, it’s legitimate criticism of Israel."
Does Israel not have a long history of killing children? If it does, then it is indeed legitimate.
And again, unless you can show how you arrived at the conclusion that the author of the article secretly means that JEWS have a long history of killing children, your claims of anti-semitism don’t wash.
As to the weight and piggishness of Sydney’s Jewish community, I can’t comment, as I don’t know the people in question and have not measured their waistlines.
Alpha, this is like having a pissing contest with a skunk
Thanks Ben, I am sorry you felt obliged to lower your good standards to involve yourself in this filth. Your views are a breath of fresh air - and I never thought I would see the day I had to admit that to you.
If it is any consolation, I feel just as sleezy by association as you must feel but I cannot remain silent on these issues, no matter how sleezy it makes one feel.
I invite bloggers to read some of the material at memri.otg. These are uncommented translations of Arabic news sources; tv, radio and print.
BPobjie,
Firstly, as I have explained ad nauseam, Rockjaw has made some manifestly antisemitic comments; for instance, about the Sydney Jewish community. He clarified and explained that everyone who supports Israel is a maniac fat genocidal pig etc etc. This apparently makes it ok to call the majority of Australian Jews any manner of vicious names.
Which brings me to secondly, which is that antisemitism is so easily couched as criticism of Israel. Rockjaw has hidden behind this ostensibly "legitimate" criticism. It is a fascinating phenomenon which has seen the emergence of a significant proportion of the far left as the greatest, most open antisemites in the West.
The third issue is that such "criticism" (otherwise known as vilification) would never be tolerated if it related to anyone but Jews. I can’t imagine, for instance, anyone from the Left accepting Irish extremist discourse about Britain that used the same inflammatory, hateful rhetoric that you are defending as acceptable to use against Israel (and supporters of Israel).
It may well be true that, given the modern-day South Africa’s abysmal response to HIV, it has a "long history of killing children". The phrasing, however, would clearly be unacceptable and inflammatory and basically uncouth. Potty-mouthed, really. In the mouths of antisemites like Rockjaw, it sounds much like the white supremacy slogans that emerge from a David Duke website.
Thomas Friedman’s point cannot be stressed often enough, and Friedman is no great friend of Israel: "Criticizing Israel is not Anti-Semitic; and saying so is vile. But singling out Israel for opprobium and international sanction -out of all proportion to any other party in the Middle East- is anti-Semitic and not saying so is dishonest."
I want to extend my third point and again condemn the lies and distortions told by pro-Palestinian extremists here on this forum. The use of the term "genocide" to describe the current operation in Gaza is the most egregious of these. It is a term that bears no relation to reality, either in law or in fact, and the use of that term to describe the killing of baby-killing Hamasniks is not only offensive and essentially antisemitic (because it is applied to spit in the face of those of us who are descended from Holocaust survivors). It also has the added effect of degrading the term "genocide" and rendering it meaningless.
When I asked where the gas chambers were, one fool on another thread (Rogerio) said, paraphrased, that "Israel doesn’t need gas chambers because its killing methods like white phosphorus are more efficient than the gas chambers", a point which is not only offensive and absurd but, as I demonstrated, demonstrably untrue. I will repost my reply below.
I’ll say one more thing BPobjie. You are not right about where the onus lies. I am not under any obligation to prove that Rockjaw’s ilk is antisemitic. THEY are under an obligation to prove that their blood libel against Israel is true. The burden of proof is on them.
My analogy is intentional. I see very little difference between the blood libel of the Middle Ages against the Jews and the similarly insidious blood libel against Israel today. Both are lies; and both are rightly regarded as antisemitic.
The only vile thing here. alpha. is the way you murdering swine attempt to hide behind the good name and reputation, and history of the Jewish faith to commit your sick genocides as if your behaviour is Jewish in any way shape or form.
"Murdering swine", "sick genocide"… one could use the same language about the Palestinians, but I choose not to. Not only is it unfair and degrading, not to mention racist; it would also bring me down to Rockjaw’s debased level.
Is there an adult among you who will condemn this language?
"I’ll say one more thing BPobjie. You are not right about where the onus lies. I am not under any obligation to prove that Rockjaw’s ilk is antisemitic. THEY are under an obligation to prove that their blood libel against Israel is true. The burden of proof is on them."
But those are two different issues. Even if it weren’t true, it is still "blood libel" against ISRAEL, not against Jews generally, so the burden re: anti-semitism remains on you.
So yes, the burden of proof is on them to show the truth of their allegations. And the burden of proof is on you - given that the criticisms have been of Israel and Zionists - to show their criticisms are anti-semitic.
I have to say, they’re doing better so far.
""Murdering swine", "sick genocide"… one could use the same language about the Palestinians, but I choose not to. Not only is it unfair"
If it’s unfair, why do you say one could use the same language? If fairness is no issue "one could" use the same language about anyone. Either you think the Palestinians are murdering, genocidal swine or you don’t. If you do, then using the same language would be fair. If you don’t, it’s pretty meaningless to say "one could".
http://theirishbulletin.blogspot.com/2009/01/what-israel-thinks-of-catho…
The Irish certainly don’t pull their punches.
Mazzeltov!!
BPobjie, I find it astounding that you are able to rationally discuss who may and may not be referred to as "genocidal murdering swine". I would have thought that referring to any human as swine of any description would be unacceptable; it renders the subject of the appellation as sub-human.
Moreover, to speak of an entire group as genocidal or murderous is crudely racist, for want of a better word. This is precisely what I meant when I said that you COULD refer to Palestinians in that way - in theory - but it would be inappropriate and racist. I don’t think that the description comes close to being appropriate even the standard-bearer of those descriptors - Nazi Germany. One can use the words about the Nazi regime but not about German people in general (who, by the way, voted Hitler into power). And yet here on NM you are prepared to tolerate not just the most disgraceful offensive terms of abuse against all ISRAELIS, but against "Zionists" and "supporters of Israel".
Rockjaw and others well know that the vast majority of Jews in the world are supportive of Israel. Israel is the world’s only Jewish state. Of the thousand odd Jews I am acquainted with, I know of a few non-Zionists and 2 anti-Zionists. The rest - roughly, say, 95% of them, are Zionists. (Incidentally, I just realised, that is roughly the same percentage of Israelis as supported the Gaza op.) So when Rockjaw easily abuses "Zionists" or "supporters of those genocidal murderous swine" with the kinds of abuse usually only reserved for wife-beaters and serial killers, he knows very well that he is talking about most Jews.
This is all quite aside from the substance of the charges, which are obscenely wild accusations with no merit, as I have discussed previously. Happy to go over it again, if you like. The irony of course is that most of my Israeli and non-Israeli Jewish friends have never been more convinced of the justice of an Israeli action than by this Gaza op. It was 8 years coming to Hamas. So while fringe elements like Rockjaw rail on about "genocide", if we had the opportunity to do the last 3 weeks over again, I think we would pretty much universally support the op.
But BPobjie, let me ask you: what IS unacceptable abuse of Jews?… oops, I meant to say "Zionists". Either way, given your vigorous defence of Rockjaw’s and others’ Jew-hatred, I am eager to hear what would be beyond the pale in your humble opinion.
This entire string has been fascinating to watch as it unfolds.
I wonder whether the Australian group psyche can deal with the "Israeli" & "Jewish" issue given the methods employed by the obviously well organised and structured propaganda machine of Israel’s footsoldiers - people like alphacrucis.
Apart from projects like Megaphone, Israel Advocacy organizations like the David Project even give workshops in linguistic aggressive-defense tactics for whenever someone uses the word "Jew" or criticizes Israel. Always manipulate the conversation so that the focus is turned on Israel’s accusor.
Fascinating.
It’s a psychological intimidation tactic aimed at getting the person to apologize for hurting Jewish sensitivities, or for conflating Jews and Zionists, or for thinking all Zionists are bad.
Australian Jews such as the Sydney Jewish community spokespeople who published that "filth" (to quote Rockjaw) in the Australian media do not seem to hold themselves accountable to the same moral standard as they hold others.
All Gentiles apparently have to apologize for the Holocaust, yet all Jews don’t have to apologize for Israel. [ecumenical deal: Jews accept Christian apology as long as Christians don’t criticize Israel]
The current Israeli argument seems to be:
"You are anti-Semitic for linking Zionism and Jewishness."
"You are anti-Semitic for not acknowledging the special connection of Israel to Jewishness."
"You can’t win!"
"You are bad."
"Therefore we will talk about what you did, not what Israelis did."
But, as Rockjaw has very successfully pointed out, Jews are those who call themselves Jews. Nobody knows if you are a Jew or not unless you mention it. Jews who do not wish to participate in Jewish hegemony should be the first ones in the front lines, demanding the asset seizure, imprisonment and public execution of the Zionist leadership who did this to the Palestinian people (under the protection of the good reputation of history’s Jews).
Added to the above is the destruction which the pro-Israeli billionaires have caused to the world economy for which they should also be held accountable but which will probably never be prosecuted because we have prostituted our economies to these people as well.
How much longer do the world’s gentiles have to pay for the Holocaust?
When will we stop asking the Palestinians to carry the gentile’s burden alone?
Answer, when we learn to understand that the holocaust debt is not owed to Israel, but to humanity, which, as is becoming obvious, actually opposes Israel for the most part.
These NM articles have done a splendid job of helping to unmask the Israel lobby and the fallacies which link Israel to the holocaust and to the the world’s Jews.
Well done NM and well done Pobjie for adding the clarity which brought me to see the ideas what I express in this contribution of mine.
Rogerio wrote: "Added to the above is the destruction which the pro-Israeli billionaires have caused to the world economy for which they should also be held accountable but which will probably never be prosecuted because we have prostituted our economies to these people as well. How much longer do the world’s gentiles have to pay for the Holocaust?"
I see the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is getting a good reading in your circles.
Your ilk insists that "Jew" is different from "Zionist" and "pro-Israel". And yet, here we have you conflating the two at your own convenience; "pro-Israeli billionaires" (aka Jews) are responsible for the global economic collapse.
Let me repeat that: we have the classic antisemitic line - that all-powerful Jews are responsible for all the world’s negative events - in full force.
No doubt BPobjie will defend this as "legitimate criticism of pro-Israelis".
According to the antisemite apologists, any classically antisemitic canard is acceptable as long as you replace the word "Jew" with "Zionist" or "pro-Israeli".
I think any agenda-free thinking person can see this for what it is: thinly veiled antisemitism.
Rockjaw, if anybody needed confirmation that you are an antisemite, your latest post provides it. You quoted an antisemitic rant from an ultra-right Irish nationalist blog. I urge everybody to read this foaming-at-the-mouth Jew-hatred that Rockjaw posted: http://theirishbulletin.blogspot.com/2009/01/what-israel-thinks-of-catho…
Keep in mind that Rockjaw - ostensibly a leftist progressive - approves of this bile.
Jew-hatred does make strange bedfellows indeed.