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thehays 31/07/08 3:01PM

Sounds like another case of "in MY day… *insert generalisation about ‘kids these days’ and how we did the ‘youth’ thing better than anyone after us*"

When the Baby Boomers "actually stood for stuff, had beliefs, dropped out and shook things up" their elders were left wondering how on earth they would continue the human species and survive in the world without having fought in a major world war or having lived through the Great Depression. How they would ever have survived before plentiful private cars, Television, Jet Aircraft and rock music? Directionless, lazy, longhaired, disprespectful louts and thugs, who didn’t appreciate what their forebears did, or still do for them! Dag-nabbit!

And I’m sure "Gen Y’s" grandkids will be doing exactly the same thing to them. Get over it.

NewsFlake 31/07/08 4:28PM

Baby Boomers actually stood for stuff, had beliefs, dropped out and shook things up.

totally… well at least until they sold us all out for mercs and their investment portfolios.

pararto 31/07/08 5:57PM

I love it. Tjamu is a Pitjantjatara word for grandchildren and grandparents - all the same business, one relationship. As a boomer I had to sit back and watch as Howard’s war-babies and genX gave us neo-liberalism and pretty much made no attempt at dealing with the real issues of living on a small planet. Now its our turn Boomers and Y to exorcise the demons of capitalism and give peace a chance. Never mind the down turn in the economy, music doesn’t use much energy and we can start returning to our handcrafted more meaningful existence.

Palex 31/07/08 6:01PM

Mr Dumpling,
I hope the irony that you have just become a part of the media "that’s pushing content about Gen Y" is not lost on you. If you think overanalysing via facebook is bad, then surely overanalysing a generation that you’re not part of is worse. I agree, Gen Y does get FAR to much attention in media and sociology circles - but whinging about it just continues the cycle.
This generation has the technological tools to act differently to past generations. Big deal. Why don’t we just let them deal with the repercussions in their supposedly nigh New World Order.

aevil 31/07/08 6:22PM

As a Gen-Y I agree on a lot of this, especially the workplace dilemma.

Perhaps in the workplace, an unwillingness to use "old-world technology" signifies less of a whiny predisposition than it does an ability to sniff out inefficiency right off the bat.

We want it all and we want it now. Damn right we do. And we are WORKING for it. Maybe pre-Boomers need to take a step back and look at just how much so many of us ARE accomplishing in our pre-twenties. I may have worked 7 jobs by 19, and whilst even for a Gen Y that is a large number, I am not the only one in the office in the same position. Full-time students these days are holding down full-time, "real" jobs - but to get to these jobs before graduating, there’s a competitive job market you need to be prepared to enter with the claws out.

So yes, the Gen Y may be pushy, hasty and juvenile. But that’s because we’re getting there faster and with more gusto than the old dogs are used to. We’re happy to say ‘I deserve this’ and then shake things up in order to get it.

In an unpredictable economy and a lending crisis looming, from working in the finance industry I can safely say that it is NOT the Gen Y that is stumbling quite happily into the pit of living beyond your means. Boomers, who are starting to fall into the category of not understanding the new technology, still want it, still buy it - but aren’t necessarily paying it off.

And seriously. If my preceding generations were the intellectuals, the dreamers, the doers - why are so many of them quite indignantly spending thousands of dollars on plasma TVs. So they can sit back, watch the ‘dumbed down’ media and commentate on the insipidness of an attention-deficit batch of womb-lice?

BPobjie 31/07/08 6:57PM

I thought we’d moved past Gen Y. Aren’t we up to Gen Z, or possibly past that through to Gen A?

I’m pretty sure I’m in Gen Y, and I feel terribly old. I guess you could say I’m more myself than I’ve ever been.

The important thing is to hate every generation equally.

revilo 31/07/08 11:20PM

In my day it was great, I mean realllly cool (cool was a word the beatnicks used).
There was actually a generation gap.
Secure and insulated by the GG you could frequent "pin ball parlors", not a wrinkly in sight except for the proprietor, old Mr. Vallis.
But this aproned old guy busied himself with cleaning and mopping and tidying and pretty well left us alone to smoke (cigarettes) which he sold and which did’nt harm anyone. In fact the flies were’nt bothered by the smoke at all. There were our own movies and rock groups, places in the park and beaches which were no go zones for the over 18’s.

So my advice to kids today is to F@#$ off and give me back my TV remote, the laptop, the ipod, the car, the bathroom, the house, the fox guide, my life, my dignity and actually do something original, that can still at least be called an achievement worth achieving, that’s all. ha ha.
Siiick.

ryanheath 01/08/08 12:08AM

hmmm … good to see someone still remembers me.

Where do I start? I don’t agree with everything that was in my book - it wasn’t a personal manifesto - but I do stick by most of it. Unfortunately for Mr Dumpling and my bank account, many more people talked about my book than bought it.

So the first and most common mistake is assuming that the book title is an executive summary of the book. The title is actually the polite paraphrasing of an interviewee.

The second funny point I found in this article is that I actually suggested national service (not necessarily military) in the book - so it seems Mr Dumpling agrees with me. Just two years late and without an actual proposal at hand.

Thirdly, if I may generalise - many people seem to either refuse to acknowledge the concept of generations or take them far too seriously. I think we need to steer a middle course, and that’s why I wrote a book instead of a 1,000 word article that can only draw on the basest stereotypes. Even my book is a generalisation such is the difficulty of pinning a ‘generation’ down in a world of such churn.

Fourthly, every generation paints a picutre of itself that is too rosy. Mr Dumpling is up to the same old tricks here. The difference is that in 2004 when I started writing the book someone needed to speak up for Gen Y because they were getting trampled. It would be difficult to produce evidence to claim the Baby Boomers have been ‘trampled’ by anyone apart from their own number since about 1972.

Finally, I find it hilarious that bosses / managers have their knickers in a twist over Gen Y. It’s called the market in action and the population bubble biting us in the a*se. Gen Y are going to be so much more annoying than any union could be, and good for them - they are simply applying the lessons of ‘fight for everything cos no one else will fight for you’ that they have been pumped with their whole life … the moral in all respects: be careful what you wish for.

and p.s.: yes I p*ssed off to Belgium in Feb 2008: to a job that pays me double at the European Union and to a culture that respects the things I have to say and write. Most people in my position would do the same, and I don’t regret it for a second. I am very proud to be the only Australian working here, it would be nice to think Australians were also glad someone can be bothered to do it.

ubu 01/08/08 12:33AM

It’s a well-established sociological fact that teenagers from different generations are *completely* different from teenagers from other historical periods, no matter how much economic, social & technological conditions have changed.

In this sense, your claim that "Apparently Gen Y are much like baby boomers and are referred to as "echo boomers". Not because they’re crazy, misunderstood dreamers, but becasue they’re revolutionaries, striving to change the world. Seriously" is somewhat disingenuous.

You know full well that they’re being post-post-ironic.

Dr Dog 01/08/08 10:30AM

If bucket loads of harden the fuck up are to be administered the we could start with all the weak baby boomer parents who can’t harden up enough to kick their GenY kids out of the house before age 30.

I suggest GenY will get hardened up considerably by the financial and environmental mismanagement of the Boomers, who despite living through the most progressive period socially since the 1920s managed to leave Gens X and Y with a raped economy and an increasingly square social scene.

But lets face it, this is mostly about how few genuinely cool people there are in any generation. Baby Boomers carry on like they all went to Woodstock, whereas we really know that most never made it past the Year 10 certificate at Granville High before they went on to wear their long hair and flares while working at a public service job near Wynyard.

Gen X were all supposed to be nihilists and slackers, savvy to pop culture and careless of person gain. This lasted about as long as the average Pixies song before this generation also went for the cash and prizes.

Its true that Generation Y is full of self interested, whiny dickheads with few skills and an expectation that the world will just keep delivering their needs. It is true that they take themselves way too seriously, and that their idea of maturity is changing from JJJ to Nova. It is also true that most will end up on the same treadmill as their parents, beleiving similar things and leaving behind their dreams of a better world, with plasmas for all and friends for life.

Thats what life does as we get older, turns most people into jerks and squares. The generation is irrelevant.

bobdumpling 01/08/08 11:46AM

Thank you to everyone for your comments. A few things:
I don't think anything said about a generation should be prefaced with a disclaimer, but I will state that I'm fully aware of the stereotyping and pigeonholing that comes with this sort of piece. Many members of Gen Y are unfairly categorised with traits they clearly don't possess.

I was genuinely surprised that comparisons have been made between Gen Y and Boomers. I think comparing generations in a who's better contest is implausible and counter-productive. I should add that I would be the last person to champion the cause of baby boomers.

Palex, I'm vividly aware of the irony of my statements. The question of Gen Y's access to new technologies is a very interesting one. I don't think new tech is wasted on Gen Y (they've been critical creators of much of it) but let's hope some of it which is underused gets some more attention.

Aevil, great to hear about your experiences. Can I ask what the seven jobs were you had up until you were 19? (I'm certain you had them, just interested in what sort of mix they were).

The incidence of not using emails can be viewed in many ways. If the employee can see it as inefficient and identifies alternatives which are more productive,then certainly like anything in the workplace, this should be encouraged. The distinction is when an employee refuses to follow the structural processes of an organisation based on their personal view of their effectiveness and (this is where it pisses off employers) refuse to adhere to those processes. There's no point suggesting everyone communicate via Campfire (the app, not the outdoor experience) when the company has a huge number of staff using email as there primary method of communication. Do you see the difference?

pararto, I loved your comment. Music is the weapon of the future.

Dr Dog, you are a genius.

Mr Heath, good to see the google alerts are still working. What didn't you agree with in your book? Not the title I hope.

I recalled your suggestion of conscription but it's not the first time it's been suggested since 1972. Also, there is nothing funny about conscription, lets not try and confuse public opinion.

I'm sorry if I painted a rosey picture of a particular generation, it was more my intention to reference another one whilst Gen Y are in flagrante delicto.

This idea of generations being 'trampled' is an interesting one. Mark Davis went on about it and I guess it's your turn now.

Finally, sometimes it's forgotten that each generation inherits the great ideas, progress, technology and problems of the previous generations. They also inherit learned behaviour and traits that make us the highly evolved primates we are. But there are also clear distinctions due to events and circumstance and with the greatest challenge of our age ahead being climate change, I do think there are interesting times ahead.

Cubby 01/08/08 12:25PM

i don’t know where you got the idea that media content is dictated by the 16 to 25 year old demographic

Dr Dog 01/08/08 1:02PM

Thanks Bob,

It just occured to me that this will become academic when we get to observe the expectations of the next lot. I suggest we start calling them the Baby Bonus Boomer generation. These people won’t even get out of bed for less than $5000.

GAUTAM 01/08/08 2:02PM

Lolz @ OlD Ppls

Jonah Bones 01/08/08 2:20PM

I am lost to all this , never did take much notice of peers or pop culture ,is that typical of someone born between mid sixties early eighties ? I’m sure I have a birthday in there somewhere , but never found age relevant to personality assessment.
Only change I ever notice is speech patterns , any idea why ?

enirahccas 01/08/08 4:31PM

Love your work, Bob. But what about Generation A15?

trixie_dlr 01/08/08 4:58PM

‘i don’t know where you got the idea that media content is dictated by the 16 to 25 year old demographic’

yeah, me neither. media news content is clearly dictated by the 14-18 year old demographic.

trixie_dlr 01/08/08 5:06PM

cf Gen X Key Text, the Homerpollooza ep. of The Simpsons:

"Are you being sarcastic, dude?"

"I don’t even know any more."

bobdumpling 04/08/08 10:52AM

Hi enirahccas, what about Generation A15?

curaezipirid 04/08/08 2:25PM

can’t help but wonder Mr Dumpling, how old you are, and what generation you yourself identify with, since none of us our out of this ball game

Since most of my fellow generation Y folk, tend to define our comprehension by failing definition, and I often seem to find myself an odd one out in thinking like generation Y, while all my age group peers are generation X, let me try a boomer/X type of definition on you all.

Where X’ers are idealists, Y’s are pragmatists
Where X’ers are politically correct, Y’s feign noncholance
Where X’ers want to get in on the economy of boom times, Y’s regale ourselves with the hard core essence of our forebears idealism and politically correctness.
Where X’ers wanted to find out how to turn the garbage heap of society over and put the right folk on top, Y’s know that the expensive of doing that was not being counted right by the previous generation.
Where X’ers questioned why religosity seemed doomed to failure, Y’s swallow the pill and get on with the job, whether it pays well or not.

Yet the basic truth of the pill to swallow which the Y generation is inheriting, is of an unimpressive lot to have to be inheriting, and therefore, many more of the Y generation are more likely to, engage in behaviours causal to mental health disturbances, (either underproducing or overproducing their work efforts), and in the end, know that we’re all in it together, but essentially perfectly alone. You will find that Y generations types, might be less readily motivated, and far more difficult to inspire, but once committed, are somewhat more determined to prove a point.

It is the same point, of course, that every generation of youth want to prove, but these days, youth have grown up in surrounded by technology which induces comprehension of a wisdom which is well beyond their years, and therefore, often are slow in assimilating that data, and so seem to be slow to grow up at times. Yet when the full onslaught of the data at our fingertips is being assimilated, the world will either change rapidly or become a far more unpleasant place for everybody.

Lets hope upon it being the former, by sustaining confidence in youth, that they are a very changable lot.

Word Sword Sworn
At Hath
That Hat
Inshallah no poetry farce
By Solomon’s Seal will my past
No word not true can last

bobdumpling 05/08/08 1:11PM

Hi curaezipirid, it’s not about me. Suffice to say I was born after the Crimean War.

Can I ask, what do you actually mean when you say, ‘You will find that Y generations types, might be less readily motivated, and far more difficult to inspire, but once committed, are somewhat more determined to prove a point’?

Dr Dog 06/08/08 9:41AM

If Generation Y are so tied into information technology why are they so bad at typing?

From the length of the post I would say curaezipid is determined to prove some point but despite this I don’t get it. Are they saying that the work of humanity is to try to catch up ethically and practically with the progress of knowledge. That is hardly new to any generation.

Are they contending that greedy self entitlement and the blind acceptance of the current social and economic structure is some sort of admirable pragmatism.

Things aren’y that bad for Gen Y that you can claim a hardheaded wartime mentality, although that may develop as things get worse. I always did feel that the only reason Boomers and X’s developed all those high minded concepts is the standard of living that allowed them to be the middle class children of comparitively rich parents.

Maybe Gen Y can rise to the challenges ahead, but there will be a lot of tears before they grow up enough to handle it.

surdo 11/08/08 1:21PM

Don’t really see what the article is trying to say? For starters if someone was going to accurately pass judgement on aspects of Gen Y, then wouldnt a bit more reearch than a few online blogs be required. you know, like actually talk to some people from that group? Or is that too new school for baby boomers, who assume they already know everything, so why research….

Secondly its about time baby boomers, and especially authors of that group, admit, realise and stop diverting the fact that YOU ARE NOW THE ESTABLISHMENT. YOU ARE NOW THE ENEMY. There is no way around it. You control the companies, the govt, the money, the property the future and your conveneinently re writing the past. Your credibility as radicals (whcih most of you werent anyways!) is down the toilet.

As to the comment "genX gave us neo-liberalism". WTF? As someone who comes from the Gen X grouping, I find it hard to see how ppl of my generation could have developed something that was already in place when I was born. Thatcher? Reagan? Friedman? Chicago Boys? Keating? Howard? Greenspan? Clinton? I’m pretty sure they didnt go to high school at the same time as I did…..

Neo Liberalism is the self centred response by Baby boomers when they finally sold out the ideas of freethinkers, which they never really believed in, and decided to get everything they felt entitled to…. and you call gen Y selfish? LOL!

And if you are a Baby Boomer that is still alive, not living in poverty or prison, then you never where a radical or going to change the world, cus all the real revolutionarys from that era aint worrying about their retirement, superannuation and property portfolios.

So leave them Gen Y kids alone….

Xer 28/08/08 12:02PM

curazieprid said:

Where X’ers are idealists, Y’s are pragmatists——

Xer replies:
I have managed Gen X and Gen Y. Gen Y are extremely entitled and therefore will quit at a moments notice (actually we are lucky if they give notice) if they feel that they are not getting paid enough, aren’t having fun, or if they don’t get a loud "good job!" after every small accomplishment they actually will deign to do. X’ers work hard and can be left alone to actually complete a job. A managers dream.

curazieprid said:
Where X’ers are politically correct, Y’s feign noncholance—-

Xer replies:
Y’s are nonchalant (bored) if something doesn’t relate to them or doesn’t directly benefit them. What is wrong with politically correct? That just shows the immaturity of the Y Generation is prevalent. Saying the wrong thing in a business deal that requires sensitivity and it could potentially hurt the company. And unfortunately this has happened, I am sad to say.

curazieprid said:
Where X’ers want to get in on the economy of boom times, Y’s regale ourselves with the hard core essence of our forebears idealism and politically correctness.——-

Xer replies:
Xer’s are ignored over Y’ers because the excellent marketing team of Boomer, Boomer and Boomer has made people believe that these young workers are superior. They are not. There are exceptions of course, the rare individual that impresses with real merit. However, Y’ers get credit for their charity, but they only volunteer to get kudos on their college resumes. Though they will be the first to deny this fact. They accomplish a lot because the road has been paved for them and their parents handle everything hard for them and shield them from reality. That is the real reason that they are slow to grow up. People will buy a inferior product if the marketing is good. And marketing has been wonderful for this generation. They aren’t horrible, but they are the most indulged generation ever, therefore, they aren’t anything special in the workplace. An though I hear companies are catching on to the silliness, there are some that are bending over backwards. Productivity and profits are going down at these companies and eventually they will catch on too.

curazieprid said:
Where X’ers wanted to find out how to turn the garbage heap of society over and put the right folk on top, Y’s know that the expensive of doing that was not being counted right by the previous generation.—-

Xer replies:
See above comment, if something bores them, it is because it is not directly related to them. Lacking initiative without complete guidance, they wouldn’t start anything without being told what to do. Don’t expect a Y’er to actually change the world without everyone helping them to the point of doing all the work and giving them the credit.

Wcurazieprid said:
here X’ers questioned why religosity seemed doomed to failure, Y’s swallow the pill and get on with the job, whether it pays well or not.——

Xer replies:
Total dog dung. A Y’er will be the first to quit if they aren’t promoted in a couple of months of starting a job. They want to be the "star" because since birth, they have been "self-esteemed" to the point of believing that they are perfect and that everything they do is wonderful.

Again I say, not a horrible generation, but nothing special. Over-hyped and over-marketed. The Y’ers will only learn if they aren’t coddled. The special treatment has to end sometime. If the Yer’s don’t mature and get their acts together, we will have to hire Boomers and Xers until the next generation gets into the workforce.

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